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<ghled> is opening it the easiest way, though?
<Jey> well, then they'll end up with an empty file created if it didn't exist before
<ghled> hmmmmmmmmmm
<ghled> stat then!
<NoGods> If you're going to write the file, don't check beforehand--just open for writing.
<MachinShi> http://users.actcom.co.il/~choo/lupg/tutorials/handling-files/handling-files.html <--also 'access'
<ghled> maybe I can just do that
<NoGods> "that", you say.
<ghled> what you say
<ghled> ohh, so many options!
<boxxers> i farted.
<boxxers> again.
<ZorbaTHut> thank you for sharing.
<ScottC> hmm
<ScottC> Theres a lot of complaining reguarding programming languages
<ScottC> Like I hear that visual basic is crap a lot
<ScottC> But I mean, if it gets the job done easier or better than say C++, wouldn't it be better to use..?
<ZorbaTHut> scott, a lot of people have a very narrow vision of what needs to be done
<ZorbaTHut> personally I'd have to fight with visual basic a lot to get what I need done
<ZorbaTHut> but if I was doing much heavier GUI development, I'd probably far prefer VB over C++
<ScottC> i'd like to make a little chat program
<ZorbaTHut> (although honestly, IMHO, C# is now strictly superior to VB)
<pepp-> I agree with you there zorba. The people in charge of getting things done mostly are trying to get it done by hook or crook not the right way.
<ScottC> I can't find much on the WinAPI for C++
<ZorbaTHut> C++ windows programming is a bit painful
<ScottC> thus why I was thinking of using VB
<ZorbaTHut> you won't match its efficiency with VB or C#, but holy crap you'll get it done in a tenth the time.
<ScottC> my IDE supports it
<ZorbaTHut> I'd use C# if you can rely on the .net runtime existing, but it's up to you
<ScottC> I've never used C# in my life
<MachinShi> it's the cl***ic language conundrum. what's more important. runtime speed, or writing speed
<ghled> Zorba, what are the advantages of C# over VB.NET?
<pepp-> c# and c++ way to go
<MachinShi> c# is easy to learn actually
<ZorbaTHut> if you've used C++ or Java, you know C#. ;)
<ScottC> I'm wondering Microsoft Visual Studio .net 2003 even supports C#
<ScottC> ok
<ZorbaTHut> ghled, cleaner language, much more similar to other common languages, more powerful features
<pepp-> ScottC: ofcourse it does.
<ScottC> I've used a bit of the winapi with C++, made some games, used some opengl, and of course plenty of console programs
<ZorbaTHut> with games, you want to go C++
<ghled> I just can't stand the VB syntax
<boxxers> i think i like java much more than c++
<ZorbaTHut> but honestly, complex GUIs with C++ are pain.
<ZorbaTHut> ghled, that too. :)
<ghled> Dim x As Integer
<ScottC> C# is what I need for GUI?
<ghled> what's wrong with int x!
<ZorbaTHut> boxxers, IMHO C# is almost strictly better than java too :P
<ScottC> hehe ghled
<boxxers> stfu
<ScottC> I remember when I was around 10 I wanted to make games
<boxxers> java is the **** FO
<boxxers> ill shoot you.
<pepp-> ZorbaTHut: C# is identical to java.
<ZorbaTHut> java ****s
<boxxers> lol
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: how so?
<ghled> they're not identical
<ScottC> I tried visual basic
<ZorbaTHut> their last design decision is hilarious
<ScottC> but it was wierd
<ghled> which one, Zorba?
<boxxers> zorba::stick with qbasic foo
<ScottC> I had heard that games were made using text only
<ZorbaTHut> see, they have 16-bit chars, which are supposed to be, you know, *a character*
<ZorbaTHut> only it turns out that Unicode is now 20-bit
<ScottC> and a graphical thing making windows apps didn't seem so right for making games.
<ScottC> the tools didn't imply that I could really make games either
<ZorbaTHut> so instead of making char wider, their "solution" is simple - just make some characters take up two chars?
<ScottC> so C#
<ScottC> for GUI
<ZorbaTHut> so now a char isn't necessarily a character. it's sometimes half a character. welcome to multibyte hell, folks
<ScottC> Eh
<boxxers> hey
<boxxers> does dev-cpp
<_nv> ZorbaTHut, IMHO UTF-16 multi-characters can burn in hell. I don't support them.
<boxxers> accept umm....resource files?
<boxxers> .rc?
<ZorbaTHut> nv, Java now has them as officially part of the language.
<boxxers> like micro$oft files?
<ZorbaTHut> except it's even better than that, actually
<ZorbaTHut> it's not *standard* UTF-16 multi-characters
<boxxers> in visual studio?
<ZorbaTHut> it's *modified* UTF-16 multi-characters
<_nv> man, I've done loc work before, this isn't news =)
<ZorbaTHut> I just want to bitchslap whoever it is that came up with that idea
<MachinShi> oh god. that's horrid
<NKD> I go take a nap and come back and you people are still arguing about character encoding?
<NKD> :P
<MachinShi> it was for 'backwards compatibility' no doubt. the ultimate bane of programmers
<ZorbaTHut> (note that it's only modified UTF-16 multi-characters in *some* places)
<boxxers> :)
<ZorbaTHut> see, this is what happens when you restrict datatype size
<_nv> really you need UTF-32 to be right, but screw wasting that much RAM on text.
<ZorbaTHut> suddenly your datatypes aren't that big
<boxxers> NKD:::i farted awhile ago....
<ZorbaTHut> nv, who cares? it's *text*. you're not going to have more than a few megs
<ZorbaTHut> text size is never, ever a bottleneck. :P
<ghled> I've had dreams about character encoding
<_nv> boxxers, please cease and decist.
<ZorbaTHut> boxxers, cut it out.
<NKD> eww
<roods> should i perfer iterators over for loops?
<ZorbaTHut> wow, two ops and one regular, simultaneously
<roods> ZorbaTHut: hi
<pepp-> roods: iterator over for loops? lol
<ZorbaTHut> roods, opinions differ. I suggest doing whatever you find more readable.
<ZorbaTHut> I use for(int i = 0; i < myvector.size(); i++) doStuffWith(myvector[i]); regularly.
<MachinShi> God might have infinite patience, but i do not
<pepp-> roods: an iterator is not a substitude for for loop.
<MachinShi> he means looping over iterators.
<roods> pepp-: sorry poorly phrased
<roods> MachinShi: thanks, that was what i should of said
<MachinShi> i think if you're gonna loop over something and do the same actions more than 3 seperate times, use for_each & a function
<pepp-> ZorbaTHut: int is not good over there. you shoudlnt' compare int to size_type
<MachinShi> else do whichever looks nicer to you.
<_nv> roods, well, iterators might be very slightly quicker since size() doesn't need to get called each iteration, but then again your compiler might be able to optimize that out anyways. OTOH calling size() each iteration is safer if size() might change.
<ZorbaTHut> pepp, watch me care.
<ZorbaTHut> hey, wait. I don't.
<MachinShi> 3 seperate places in code, that is
<MachinShi> calc care
<MachinShi> :)
<MachinShi> oh ****. calme won't know me
<ZorbaTHut> I'm not going to have a single vector larger than 2gb. :P
<MachinShi> pcalc care
<Kniht> care = look at my face, does it *LOOK* like i care?
<NKD> careface
<_nv> MachinShi, good rule. If you do it thrice, use for. If you thrice it again, use a functor.
<pepp-> ZorbaTHut: one day you are machine is gonna restart itself and it'll keep doing it.
<ScottC> so....
<ZorbaTHut> nv, keep in mind that calling .size() likely optimizes away towards reading a single spot in memory. it's likely 100% inlined.
<NKD> lol "you are machine"
<ScottC> C# for windows GUI programs
<_nv> ZorbaTHut, probably
<MachinShi> NKD: have a care. you too are getting on my nerves.
<roods> thanks for the help
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: depends on the container :)
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: and the container's impl
<ZorbaTHut> man, mach's on a rampage today :)
<boxxers> seriously
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: i'm in an actionable mood today. it won't last long though. most days i dont' give 2 ****s about irc :)
<ZorbaTHut> mach, fair enough :)
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: how's work? mine has been rather dull lately.
<ZorbaTHut> mach, mine's actually getting more interesting lately
<pepp-> www.live.com doesnt load on IE. and neither does GMAIL.
<MachinShi> ZorbaTHut: oh? can you say what you've been working on?
<ZorbaTHut> I've been doing a lot of small but fascinating changes to existing programs
<ZorbaTHut> optimization, new features, entirely new data formats
<ZorbaTHut> that sort of thing. fun stuff. :)
<pepp-> google must be proud to have you
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