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<tastapod> hi fate!
<ufc> fate: I'll give that a shot, thanks
<fate> hey dan
<tastapod> how's it going?
<tastapod> haven't been here for ages
<fate> ufc: and ignore tastapod, he thinks ee apps should be written in ruby
<fate> pretty good
<tastapod> I accused someone in TW of fapping(TM) recently - brought a smile to my face
<meeper> hey, cvs for an apache problem
<fate> hehe
<ufc> fate: yea I pretty much had come to that conclusion already :/
<tastapod> hani: orion cl***path - how does ufc add a random jar to the cl***path of his ejb jar?
<fate> either specify it in MANIFEST.MF or add a library path to orion-application.xml
<ufc> yea those are the two ways I was trying
<ufc> neither got me very far, but I'll try the CVS version of velocity
<tastapod> if he adds foo.jar in <library/> does it look inside the ear or on the filesystem?
<fate> ufc: the cvs fixes the issue of having velocity in the ejb cl***path and trying to access templates in war
<fate> if you can't use velocity at all in the ejb layer (with templates in ejb layer too) then you have something misconfigured
<ufc> fate: the problem I had was, the only way using velocity in the ejb layer worked was with the jar in orion/lib
<ufc> fate: I'm not using any resources at all in the ejb layer, just evaluate() on strings from a db
<fate> oh, so you're doing somethign wrong then
<fate> library path take in a dir, manifest takes a file
<fate> eg:
<fate> orion-application.xml has <library path="lib" />
<tastapod> so in the ejb-jar: Cl***Path: foo.jar means foo.jar is a sibling to the ejb jar in the ear?
<fate> means that myear/lib/*.jar is added to cl***path
<fate> tastapod: yep
<tastapod> what about the application (ear) manifest?
<tastapod> I guess that doesn't help much
<fate> spec says it's not used
<fate> can't remember if orion cares about it or not thoguh
<ufc> fate: with velocity.jar in the ejb-jar manifest cl***path, it behaves the same as if there's no jar at all
<tastapod> weblogic has a nice extension, which is to have a META-INF/lib in the ear for shared jars
<tastapod> makes sense
<fate> EE 5.0 fixes that
<ufc> fate: ie, blackholes, no exceptions caught, execution disappears within the cl*** that uses velocity
<fate> and makes myear/lib/*.jar (the orion way!) standard
<tastapod> ufc: did you also take it out of the war WEB-INF/lib ?
<ufc> I'm not sure if I ever tried it with it removed from every place
<ufc> but I can
<fate> ufc: try adding it to myear/lib, and specifying library path (and doing a clean deployment)
<tastapod> ufc: if the first time you use a velocity cl*** is from the war, it will be ***ociated with the _war_ cl***loader
<ufc> oh order matters? hrm
<tastapod> so it won't find any dependent cl***es it needs
<ian> God, tomcat just ****ed me in the *** again... I didn't realize to use 1.5 features in jsp you had to reconfigure the damn servlet container.. stupid jasper.
<ufc> so, if the first time I use it is from the ejb,
<ufc> then the war will be able to see it, but not load its templates?
<tastapod> ufc: if you want a jar shared with the ejb tier it has to _not_ appear in the web-inf/lib
<fate> tastapod: nope
<ian> confession
<jjava> Remember when ordain said 'I love watching my cock disapear inside *****s when i **** them. It makes me laugh. Their lips move. It annoys me when the girl gets into it tho, and starts lifting their hips up rubbing onto me. STOP IT! Your ruining my view.'?
<tastapod> the war will be able to use it
<tastapod> fate: why not?
<tastapod> oh, if anyone ever asks you to develop on websphere portal, just cut out the middleman and poke yourself in the eye with a sharp pencil
<fate> tastapod: because many containers (including orion) handle cl***loaders the way they work in regular java
<fate> tastapod: which is parent-first, not webtier first
<meeper> ian: does tomcat officially support java 1.5 yet?
<tastapod> I thought the hierarchy in a web app was ejb tier -> web tier -> system cl***path
<tastapod> no hang on, I'm talking bollocks
<meeper> ian: technically, until there's a new servlet spec based on java 1.5, you're not supposed to run tomcat with 1.5 so it makes sense
<tastapod> system cl***path, THEN web tier, THEN ejb tier
<tastapod> no, that's wrong too
<tastapod> it's late!
<meeper> tastapod: yeah stfu
<fate> system, then ear, then war
<tastapod> oh, so I was right...
<meeper> tastapod: most app servers use: system -> then the appserver cl***path -> then ear -> then war
<fate> war has ejb as parent, which has appserver as parent, which has system as parent
<fate> right
<ufc> fate: that would probably explain why the war breaks if I have velocity in the system cl***path
<ufc> fate: because it can't load its templates
<tastapod> and it does parent first
<tastapod> yeah, that makes sense
<fate> ufc: yes, which'd be fixed in velocity cvs
<tastapod> because if you accidentally leave something app-specific in the system lib dir, it all goes pear-shaped
<ufc> fate: excellent. well first I'm gonna try to get the ejb working with it in the correct place, rather than ear/lib
<ufc> er, ear/lib rather than orion/lib
<ufc> but even then, I guess the war would break without the CVS version
<fate> yes, cvs fixes velocity in a higher cl***loader loading resources from a child cl***loader
<tastapod> fate, so lib in the root of the ear is the annointed place for jars?
<fate> it will be in EE 5.0
<tastapod> and already is in orion?
<tastapod> that's nice
<tastapod> going to upset a bunch of weblogic users :)
<fate> not by default, but it's convention to use that in orion
<fate> and specify it in orion-app.xml
<tastapod> ah right, and then just have <library path="lib"/>
<fate> the lib dir is configurable, so wl can still point to its current path, but the lib is default if nothing is specified
<tastapod> or rather ../lib because it's relative to META-INF where orion-application.xml lives?
<fate> no, just lib
<fate> it's relative to approot
<tastapod> that's nicer
<tastapod> anyway, this is all geek talk - how are you?
<fate> not too bad
<tastapod> still working with ironflare?
<jwzrd> tastapod, define work! :)
<tastapod> hehe
<tastapod> still taking money off ironflare to **** around with a web app that no-one will use?
<ian> meeper: lame
<jwzrd> haha
<ufc> ok... at this point, if velocity is in ear/lib, and nowhere else, then the ejb works and the war breaks
<jwzrd> tastapod, ****ing around eh?
<ufc> so I'm gonna grab cvs and see what happens
<GnarlyBob> ****ing an arround
<ufc> an abbot?
<x|pac> caught plagiarizing--
<tastapod> ufc: sure it's not in web-inf/lib?
<ufc> positive
<tastapod> what about any of the dependencies in velocity-dep.jar?
<ufc> not sure
<tastapod> like all the commons-pointless.jar stuff
<tastapod> the way to be sure is to use velocity.jar and have the dependencies in the app/lib as separate jars
<tastapod> (and make sure they aren't in the war)
<tastapod> bit more h***le than velocity-dep.jar but less likely to fail
<meeper> jwzrd: stfu
<ufc> hm, interesting
<ufc> with velocity-1.5-dev.jar, it fails silently
<ufc> yay.
<ufc> probably because of the missing deps
<meeper> ufc: that's what you get for using free software!
<tastapod> failing silently is a "yay"?
<ufc> the war's failing too, ok lets shore that up
<tastapod> niice
<tastapod> you've gotta love hot deployment
<tastapod> "let's move this... here... touch the application.xml... ahh
<kinabalu> tastapod: thats if there are no leaks anywhere ... if there are .. then its ... oooohh shiiit
<meeper> there's some very wierd cloud cover over nyc
<tastapod> I recently moved a dev team off WSAD and WAS 4 to eclipse + orion
<tastapod> they couldn't believe their eyes
<meeper> am I the only one who thinks alien ships hide inside clouds and that aliens can control the clouds?
<tastapod> meeper - if I told you, the aliens would fry me
<meeper> kinabalu: there are always leaks
<tastapod> at least that's what they told me
<kinabalu> tastapod: what, orion is goodness?
<kinabalu> meeper: not always...
<ufc> I get OOME occasionally while developing
<ufc> but never in production, thankfully
<tastapod> ufc: the /standard/ dev PCs at my current client now have 2Gb memory
<meeper> there are tons of lips out there that love to hold on to ThreadLocal's and the what not
<tastapod> just to cope with RAD + WebSphere Portal
<kinabalu> i have 2gb in my laptop :)
<tastapod> it's a ****ing joke
<meeper> kinabalu: haha, that's unfortunate. I have 2gb in my laptop
<tastapod> kinabalu: but that's only because you have a tiny ****, not because you actually /need/ it to work...
<kinabalu> meeper: yeah, i do hope i've gotten rid of most of them ..
<kinabalu> tastapod: no no .. you have me confused with mele, or meeper ... :)
<tastapod> hehe
<haploid> slang micropenis
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