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<Katey> She was their girl
<Estuary> what the **** are you talking about. do you think Judith Miller is a "liberal" ?
<occ> and they LEFT HER OUT TO DRY!
<Estuary> praxis9 - with all due respect, you have no clue what you're talking about.
<Katey> occ, surprise!
<Katey> :)
<Kaliuna> Estuary -- and when Hillary was questioned how many times did she claim "she couldn't remember" stuff
<bmc> isnt there any new news to discuss
<Katey> Kaliuna, if she "couldn't remember stuff" then why was she sitting in jail?
<occ> well, as long as it was only hated democrats who did anything wrong
<Katey> couldn't she have just said that she couldn't remember from the beginning?
<bmc> enough with the regurgatating(sp?) of old news
<Kaliuna> Katey -- to gain more publicity of course
<Estuary> Kaliuna - and? does hilary's lies somehow make Miller's lies more tolerable ? what'syour point, besides the need to express your obsession with the Clintons ?
<Kaliuna> Katey -- she's got a book deal...
<praxis9> Miller's a liar! Haha
<praxis9> She was a big liberal hero. But not now!
<praxis9> Whee!
<Kaliuna> Estuary - the same reason YOU have for attempting to make sordid stuff out of her "couldn't remember" bit --
<praxis9> This story just gets better and better.
<Katey> praxis9, when was she a liberal hero?
<bmc> hey did you know that al gore invented the internet :P
<Estuary> Praxis9 - are you even familiar with Judith Miller's work at the Times prior to the scandal ?
<Katey> praxis9, are you just trolling or are you seriously not familiar with her/
<Katey> ?
<Estuary> katey - he just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, and is comfortable with this cartoonish picture he has in his head.
<Katey> praxis9, feel free to look into it yourself. Miller has not been any hero of the left, I can ***ure you of that.
<Estuary> as if Miller's some liberal hero fallen from grace!
<bmc> ashlee simpson is on cnn
<praxis9> Katey: Hehe
<tehdave> praxis9, brilliant trolling, bro. right on.
<praxis9> Haha
<Swigert> bmc: arrested for prostittuion?
<bmc> she looks more bangable with blonde hair
<occ> bmc is *********ing furiously ;)
<praxis9> No! The sainted Judith Miller didn't deliver! She's a liar!
<Kaliuna> She was working on a story regarding WMDs and possible other connections in Iraq... so says newest info out.. which is old info -
<bmc> she looks like **** with black hair
<Katey> praxis9, maybe you should do some reading and get back to us. :)
<Kaliuna> It was presumed that her meetings with VP chief of staff was to update him on her stuff --
<Estuary> Praxis9 - one last time, are you familiar with Miller's work PRIOR to the scandal ??
<Katey> I'll brb myseif
<Estuary> Katey god i hope others here aren't as confused as he is about the circumstances of this case.
<praxis9> Estuary: Prior to her non-delivery on Rove, you mean? :)
<praxis9> Haha
<Estuary> "non-delivery" ? 1. she didn't have to, as Matthew Cooper already had named Rove. 2. you still don't knwo what the hell you're talking about.
<Kaliuna> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051021/D8DCNVGO0.html
<Kaliuna> you might want to read a bit there...
<suna> they're right, answer the question
<Kaliuna> Miller said that, because she had just returned from covering the Iraq war, she was probably giving Libby an update about her experiences there...
<Estuary> haha
<Kaliuna> that is what she was doing PRIOR to her first meeting... with VP chief of staff Libby
<Estuary> yes, because its the duty of a reporter to debrief a government official on the war.....riiiiiiiiight.
<Estuary> you don't even seem to have any idea of the unseemliness of that.
<Kaliuna> Seems other reporters have done the same...
<Estuary> haha
<Estuary> i wonder if her update to libby included "we didn't find any of the weapons which i repeated wrote were there"
<Kaliuna> WH logs show several reporters 'debriefing' following returns from Iraq.
<Estuary> lets see em.
<CryArvach> Kali!! :)
<Kaliuna> after no such WMD weapons were found, she and the paper admitted some information she reported was flawed.
<Kaliuna> hi Cry....
<Kaliuna> Estuary why don't you go read the URL I posted - you can find some info there
<Estuary> Kaliuna - if you believe that Miller was simply talking about her iraq experiences with Libby....woah, i think you're going to be in for a surprise.
<Estuary> kaliuna - i've read the SOURCE that that article is based on.
<Kaliuna> sure you have --
<Estuary> why read a summation of the times' view, when i've actually read the op-ed ?
<Kaliuna> because you read an OP ed
<Kaliuna> you know what an OP ed is?
<Kaliuna> opinion pure and simple
<Estuary> Kaliuna - the Times' has essentially disowned Miller, and their editor has said it was wrong of them to trust her and defend her against the greater interest of the readers.
<Estuary> what is your point, exactly ?
<Kaliuna> The point is - you know NOTHING more than any one else... re miller or libby or rove or anyone
<Katey> Is it still widely believed that her source for her pre-war articles was Chalabi?
<Katey> That was what people seemed to be speculating at the time
<Estuary> Kaliuna - i know whats in the public record. I DO NOT believe that Miller was simply discussing the iraq war with Libby. there's no sense to that notion at all, and its entirely beyond her roll as a reporter.
<Estuary> katey - yes.
<Kaliuna> Katey -- actually they DON'T know for certain
<Katey> well I realize they don't know
<Estuary> kaliuna - she said "believe" not "know"
<Kaliuna> Estuary and you are perfectly free to believe what you want...
<Katey> I was just curious if opinions had changed on the matter
<Estuary> might wanna take another stab at that one.
<Kaliuna> Katey -- even the Bush administration said that they may have been mislead re information as well...
<Estuary> Katey - to my knowledge, no...its even more refined...its chalabi by way of cheney's office.
<Katey> Kaliuna, heh. well that seems pretty obvious. :)
<Estuary> haha
<Katey> Ah, well that would explain her contacts with Libby then
<Kaliuna> the information came through british intelligence -- so its said...
<Estuary> poor us! we were MISLED! we were tricked into invading iraq!
<Estuary> please
<Estuary> stop deluding yourself.
<FreeTrade> Bigoted behavior from this ip/domain
<Kaliuna> we didn't need WMDs to exist --
<Estuary> that's the weakest excuse you could imagine.
<Katey> Well, I think there's such a thing as willfull ignorance. You know what I mean?
<Estuary> stop resorting to the most pathetic excuse to defend the bush administration. THEY don't even make that one so much, because its so pitiful.
<Katey> Grabbing onto what supports your view and turning away from what contradicts it
<Kaliuna> You have read the original reasons to go to war haven't you? Not the stuff that was out later?
<Estuary> at least just wrongly blame the CIA and feel good about yourself.
<Estuary> but please
<Katey> It's sort of a mid-way point between complete ignorance and lying. :)
<praxis9> Bush lied, kids dies, man.
<Estuary> the "we were deceived" is such horse****.
<praxis9> Err, died.
<TheTailor> Estuary, who said we were tricked now?
<Twobar> bush is a horse turd. he has some redeeming qualities, unlike the democrats who are utter and total scum.
<Kaliuna> TT - Estuary said it
<Estuary> <Kaliuna> Katey -- even the Bush administration said that they may have been mislead re information as well...
<Zaw> praxis9: chicken fried, people lied, kids sighed!
<Kaliuna> Estuary and that is a quote from the article...
<Katey> ack
<Estuary> TheTailor - that's one of the many excuses in the wake of the lack of WMDs and al qeada connections
<Katey> botspew
<TheTailor> Estuary, I asked you who used the word 'tricked', or did you make that up?
<Kaliuna> http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html
<Estuary> TheTailor - that was my satirazation of the "we were decieved!" argument that's been put forth to defend the bush administration's apparently willful ignorance.
<occ> the WMD and al-quaeda angle were highly exaggerated, yeah
<Estuary> "Chalabi DUPED us!"
<occ> but plenty of people realized that
<praxis9> Oh, yes. Every intelligence agency in the Western world agreed that Iraq had WMDs, but now? It was the evil Chimpy who made it all up!
<praxis9> That bad, bad Chimpy!
<suna> praxis says who?
<occ> right, praxis
<suna> u watch cnn and they'll give you program after program talking about how the CIA gave report after report about how iraq was NOT a threat
<suna> about how saddam would NEVER world with osama unless he was absolutely forced to, which he certainly was not
<Estuary> "don't blame us.........clinton believed it too!! we had no idea...seemed reasonable at the time. how were we to know Chalabi coudln't be trusted? i mean he's only a convicted thief!"
<TheTailor> Estuary, the world was decieved, not just us. Further, as you well know, there were many other reasons to go into Iraq.
<Estuary> hah not really.
<occ> we went to iraq so we could stabilize the middle east
<TheTailor> Yes, really.
<Estuary> and "reasons" aren't justifications.
<suna> abut how even if iraq had been trying to develop nukes and suceeded, that there was no evidence at all to suggest they were an immediate threat to the US
<occ> thats the "real reason"
<suna> am i saying all this is true? no
<suna> i'm saying it comes from cnn
<TheTailor> Estuary, they aren't?
<suna> so who the hells' gonna believe your intelligence agency stories just cause you said so?
<Katey> occ, "remake" the middle east
<Estuary> TheTailor - definitely not. iraq's oil wealth is obviously a reason for invading it, but its hardly a justifcation
<praxis9> Oh, yeah. It wuz about oil!
<Kaliuna> http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/al-queda-iraq-connection.html
<TheTailor> Estuary, it's not a reason for us.
<Kaliuna> Estuary might want to read that while you are at it
<Twobar> The middle east needs to be made into another Kansas City. 'they got some crazy liddle wimmen there, and I'm gonna....get me one".
<occ> naw, kansas city ain't even in kansas ;)
<Kaliuna> suna -- you also might want to read that as well
<Kaliuna> occ - yes it is --
<TheTailor> Estuary, you can play around all you want, but Sarin was found in a roadside bomb in Iraq, don't think those chemicals weren't there.
<Twobar> occ is Dorothy. click your heels together 3 times and say.."there's no place like home".
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