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<Emil^> europe just wants at times - and this is no lie -it appears that we are being hijacked
<Dwaine> I like firefox
<Gazpacho> arcade: haokon lie founded opera?
<arcade> squidink: Amazing how much impact they've had on the current standards of the web, then.
<arcade> Gazpacho: I think so? Not sure though, I may have to check my facts there.
<tortus> the thing that makes the internet valuable is all the contributors. this is no time to squash it with a b;ureacracy as inept as the un
<squidink> arcade: not really, the majority of websites out there run ie compliant html.
<Dwaine> the UN is a farce
<Emil^> it's a fair game - yes yes
<Gazpacho> yes, hijack europe
<Lotec> I was a beta tester for Opera. It still sux
<Gazpacho> allahu akbar
<Emil^> UN managment of the net is a joke - a sick joke
<Dwaine> the UN is like saying drugs are illegal, that'll stop it all
<arcade> squidink: Certainly, but the future of html is heavily CSS influenced ..
<squidink> arcade: im just making the point, that although the internet is very international, its heavily influenced by america, which is obviously best seen in that the primary language of the internet is english.
<arcade> squidink: Ah, so it's british? ;)
<Dwaine> and... what is wrong with that?
<squidink> arcade: american english.
<squidink> arcade: i think even bbc is spelling colour as color now.
<Lotec> squidink, as it is with aviation. International pilots HAVE to speak English
<squidink> heh
<Gazpacho> squidink: eurodance music is in english too, but it's immediately identifiable as eurodance and not american
<Dwaine> it is conducive to safety
<squidink> Lotec: another area where american influence played a huge part of development.
<Dwaine> but why think when *****ing is simmplker
<squidink> Gazpacho: eurodance is crap.
<Gazpacho> squidink: that's why it hasn't caught on in the US
<squidink> thank god.
<Dwaine> yep
<Dwaine> haha
<Gazpacho> except isolated cases
<Dwaine> dance is crap
<tortus> what is eurodance
<arcade> squidink: And I'm trying to make that point that the Internet indeed was first developed in the US, but that it in its current state is developed by mainly the US and the EU .. and getting more and more influence from Asia.
<Gazpacho> tortus: you know the band Aqua?
<tortus> yes
<Gazpacho> tortus: that's eurodance
<tortus> k
<arcade> squidink: I certainly have great amounts of respect for the american contributions, but I scoff a bit when americans claim that the entire world should bow down and thank the US for all the goodies of Internet.
<Dwaine> you make no sense arcade
<squidink> arcade: well, in some ways, they should, there wouldnt be an international internet without america.
<arcade> squidink: .. And I still want ICANN to have their position instead of the UN - although I would like something better than ICANN -- but comparing it to the UN makes ICANN look like The Good Guy.
<tortus> arcade: what you are seeing is panic from americans that the un wants to control it
<squidink> arcade: the french and the brits were both happy to have thier own nationalized "nets"
<Dwaine> the UN will never control ****
<Dwaine> get over it
<arcade> squidink: .. while Norway connected to the Internet in 1972.
<Gazpacho> tortus: basically, start with 1980s american pop and develop it to its extreme of pop-ness
<tortus> i like pop
<tortus> i know i shouldn't. but i do
<Lotec> What was that old French system they tried to make into a french internet?
<Gazpacho> tortus: Europe never had an Alternative Rock trend
<squidink> arcade: yeah, exactly, thats my point, america created it, other countries were like "hey, mind if we hook in too?" and america said... "sure, why the **** not"
<Gazpacho> the horror
<tortus> hehe
<arcade> squidink: That's a distortion of how it went, but okay.
<squidink> arcade: id say the reason the internet is so free, is due to american influence, i cant think of any other country that has as strong a right to free speech.
<Gazpacho> tortus: I like it too. but the european version is all cliched and formulaic
<arcade> squidink: Certainly.
<tortus> cliche is ok with me. its fun
<squidink> arcade: it was a distortion on purpose, i was summarizing, obviously america could have said "nah, this is ours, you cant connect to it"
<tortus> sometimes serious is not as interesting as fun
<Gazpacho> tortus: I mean, they're still doin the ROBOT for heavens sake
<Gazpacho> how lame can you get?
<arcade> squidink: .. and then other systems would've been made instead. Not as good, neither for the US nor the rest of the world.
<squidink> arcade: exactly.
<squidink> arcade: but like i pointed out, no other country before had set out with an intent to make a global network, as far as i know.
<arcade> squidink: .. the telephony network? ;)
<Lotec> arcade, surely you will admit the UN is too much of a clusterfuk to take over any of the management of the net?
<tortus> there was serious discussion and serious intent to keep the internet free from control. that has already been discussed
<squidink> arcade: not the same, not freely accesable, and owned by a corporation. no one truly owns the internet.
<arcade> Lotec: If you've seen my arguments, I've said so multiple times already. I don't want the UN to get their hot clammy hands on any sort of control over the internet.
<Dwaine> I like to be able to get news/opinions unfiltered at low to negligible cost
<Lotec> OK
<arcade> Lotec: But if they really want to - they can try and make their own root servers .. which no-one in their sane minds would use.
<tortus> it is intentional that the internet is free from as many controls as possible
<tortus> it is a principled stance
<Dwaine> no one will ever control the net except SATAN himself
<Lotec> tortus, and that dives some people nuts
<tortus> it is the motivation for a lot of hacking, too, btw
<Dwaine> freedom carries a price I am willing to pay
<squidink> exactly. id all im saying, that its due to american influence that the internet is so free, i dont like the idea of of the UN or the "well, we kind have free speech" EU getting a big hold on it.
<Gazpacho> Dwaine: satan does control the internet
<tortus> i remember when the internet was first commercialized. there was ranting and raving, and finally a settled opinion that it should not be restricted, even though commerce was annoying
<Dwaine> are you satan Gazpacho?
<tortus> now the commerce is a good thing
<squidink> yeah, and the whole "death of content" came back as blogs, and wikipedia.
<squidink> heh
<Gazpacho> tortus: most of the ranting and raving was not about commerce though
<Dwaine> adblock works
<Gazpacho> it was about CHILDREN having access... CHILDREN!
<tortus> true
<Dwaine> oh please
<Dwaine> TV is evil
<tortus> but the inertia has been to not restrict
<Dwaine> screw inet
<squidink> anyone else remember that? "companies will kill the content value of the internet!"
<Gazpacho> Dwaine: that wasn't the reason
<Lotec> Parents who didn't want to have to know what their kids were up to
<Gazpacho> Dwaine: it wasn't a reaction from parents
<squidink> if anything with the advent of blogs, theres too much content.
<Dwaine> I care not reaction
<Gazpacho> Dwaine: it was a reaction from the internet "establishment" of college students
<Dwaine> are you all left wingers?
<Gazpacho> yes
<Gazpacho> all of us
<Dwaine> ic
<squidink> im a libertarian.
<Dwaine> so screw the thought process
<Dwaine> kneejerk reaction
<Gazpacho> see, squidink is a left wing libertarian
<tortus> yeah well when books were first published, there was a huge reaction that too much information was dangerous
<Dwaine> colege is left wing
<squidink> yeah, i like socialized medicine.
<tortus> this is not the first wave of anxiety about information
<squidink> im a communist libertarian with a neocon fascist bent towards war and gun control.
<squidink> heh.
<Gazpacho> lotec is also a left winger
<Dwaine> the man is crapping over bloggers, and I love it
<Lotec> Gaz, you are off your nut
<tortus> i love that blog thing
<Dwaine> finally others than nuts get a viewpoint aired
<Emil^> gazpacho - if you hate someone say why you do - to call lotec a left winger - you're a blantend *** hole
<Gazpacho> Lotec: viva la revolucion, comrade!
<Gazpacho> Emil^: what
<coldstove> are u italian?
<Emil^> if he was a commie he's say it
<Emil^> just cuz you dont agree - dont call some one a leftwinger - that is just BS
<tortus> but i think the reason for the proposal to get control of the internet from the us is all about taxation
<Dwaine> whiners and bleeding hearts are left wing
<Gazpacho> Emil^: what
<Emil^> tortus - that is at least intelliiigent
<Lotec> They told me in college I am to the right of Atilla the Hun
<Dwaine> note they all feed off the public trough
<coldstove> tortus/and taxation can ba a trigger of a revolution
<Emil^> i'm just sick of labelign people they dont agree with a commy or whatnot
<Gazpacho> Emil^: what?
<Emil^> you heard you
<tortus> cold: its big. very big
<coldstove> tortus/like independence war against Great britain
<Gazpacho> I heard me
<squidink> i wouldnt say im left wing or right wing, im rational, so im kind of somewhere in the middle, i like politics that benefit me, but mostly want the goverment to leave me alone, limit senate terms, reduce cruft, fix taxes, and otherwise just shut the **** up and defend my interests in exploiting third world nations for capital gain whilst doing it in a ecologically sane fashion. in other words, i wish government was perfect, but it isnt
<squidink> so i ***** about it a lot.
<Gazpacho> but what about you?
<Dwaine> Britian made a huge gaffe, the immagrants have destroyed them
<Dwaine> that benefit me... well you are honest
<squidink> oh, and i want my damn flying car, and a moonbase, where the flying cards and the moonbases at?
<tortus> coldstove: that was taxation without representation. this taxation is more about watching transactions on the internet
<Emil^> we all have the right to disagree- but just cuz you dont agree - to label someone a liberal, democorat, communist - that is bowl ****
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