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<squidink> so finally the koreans went to the city and were like "what the ****?" so the city politely reminded them that they arnt just koreans, but americans too, and that they lived in the city and ought to act like it.
<coldstove> squidink/ so what?
<squidink> and thats not racism on the cities part, that was do to the insanely rude way the korean district was dealing with the rest of the city.
<Hangfire> so squidink like I've been saying the whole of korean history is pretty much being shat upon by the Chinese and the Japanese in a mulitude of different ways... so to say the least a lot of koreans have a m***ive inferiority complex in dealing with both countries
<Hangfire> e.g. coldstove
<squidink> so im saying, if im worried about anyone in asia, its the koreans, who have expressed a deep hatred of the nieghbors for a long time now.
<Hangfire> ding ding ding
<coldstove> squidink/ As I told you, the phenomenon you have experienced before might be true. But It doesn't deny the fact that China is expansionist.
<squidink> haha
<squidink> yes it does.
<Hangfire> SEE!
<squidink> i proved it twice over.
<squidink> modern china has been around for what, 50 years or so now? a little longer maybe?
<squidink> Korea is still there.
<Hangfire> well let's say 1950's
<Hangfire> so erm
<Hangfire> yeah roughly
<squidink> and china has certainly had its oppurtunities.
<coldstove> Hangfire/ You're spreading untruth.
<tortus> well, china considered westerners barbarians centures ago
<Hangfire> squidink like say during the korean war when they streamed across the river and kicked the UN forces all over the place?
<Hangfire> squidink notice that was only when american forces crossed the Yalu river
<Hangfire> they were in spitting distance of it for months
<tortus> and the brits screwed china bigtime
<squidink> yeah, thats a good example, that whole part where the chinese pushed us half out of korea?
<Hangfire> but as soon as they crossed it the chinese forces THEN attacked
<squidink> you know, where there werent any koreans left?
<squidink> but then, they gave it back?
<Hangfire> they wouldn't move until they went across the Yalu and then foreign forces did and the chinese forces pushed back hard
<tortus> hang: that is not expansionist. i don't think chinese are expansionist
<squidink> i mean, maybe, maybe the chinese dont want NK, because its a nice buffer from the americans, but i doubt it.
<coldstove> squidink/ I am not sure if you're chinese american or not. but you'll see US confronting against china in the future. I'm very sure.
<squidink> theres no gain from having korea.
<squidink> expansionism as a world policy is kind of dead.
<squidink> modern manufacturing and economics sort of killed it.
<Hangfire> hah
<tortus> squid: agree. cept palestine
<Hangfire> try telling our little cold war warrior here
<squidink> tortus: elaborate?
<squidink> yeah, modern technology basically killed imperialism.
<tortus> palestine is intent on expaniding into israel
<Hangfire> squidink yeah because imperialism was about resource gathering and exchange
<Hangfire> that was it really
<Hangfire> and now with modern transportation and a world market
<squidink> the chinese can build more power from factories, then they can from having korea.
<coldstove> squidink/ it's too early to conclude.
<Hangfire> it's cheaper just to buy it then to take it with an army
<squidink> tortus: thats different.
<tortus> very different
<squidink> tortus: thats expansionism on a smaller scale, and is more ideological then political.
<Hangfire> squidink or economic
<squidink> its not expansionist, its a ****ing blood feud.
<Hangfire> well actually it's partly economic too
<Hangfire> rofl
<Hangfire> squidink worse than a blood feud
<tortus> i guess the same thing is happening in chechnya
<Hangfire> it's a family squable
<Hangfire> I mean they're both semitic peoples technically
<squidink> just like all the little african wars.
<squidink> blood feuds really.
<tortus> hang: like korea/china is a family squabble?
<squidink> bob killed joe, whos brother kills bob, bobs brother killes joes brother and so on.
<Hangfire> tortus more like China is embarrased by NK kinda like that embarrasing grandprent or uncle who pisses himself and makes a mess at all the family gatherings
<squidink> the only thing china really wants, is taiwan
<tortus> hang: i am sorry, but i think you are a bigot
<squidink> but thats historical.
<Hangfire> tortus you're saying NK isn't a historical throwback to darker times?
<Hangfire> with all that bull**** hero worship?
<squidink> besides, taiwan doesnt help by running around calling themselves the ROC
<Hangfire> that's so stalinist it's just depressingly 1950's
<squidink> no no, worse, NK is like Albania in the cold war.
<squidink> NK is far worse then cuba ever was either.
<Hangfire> most people have moved on so much further than them
<Hangfire> so yes
<Hangfire> I would say they're an embarrasing throwback
<Hangfire> for the whole region
<tortus> hang: og the two, korea and china, i would say china has the further throwback. i man, china goes further back, if wwe are doing the namecallin based on how far back something goes
<Hangfire> tortus show me where china is still running a cult of personality
<squidink> NK is straight out of 1963.
<tortus> hang: og the two, korea and china, i would say china has the further throwback. i mean, china goes further back, if we are doing the name calling based on how far back something goes
<Hangfire> compare it to NK
<emil^^> ** where is glock??
<squidink> china is ****ed up, all say it, but NK is far worse.
<Hangfire> you're saying "korea"
<Hangfire> which one?
<tortus> both have ancestor worhip, for one
<Hangfire> I'm pointing out that of the two as squid said NK is WAY more ****ed up than China which is desperately trying to modernize
<Hangfire> freeing up their economy
<Hangfire> and opening up their markets
<tortus> both revere the leader
<Hangfire> tortus you ignored it
<Hangfire> no they don't
<tortus> what did i ignore?
<Hangfire> China does not have a cult of personality around mao anymore
<Hangfire> ancestor worship != cult of personality
<squidink> China is playing with Market Socialism, freedom of enterprise, etc, and granted, they dont respect human rights at all, but on the other hand, you have NK, who plays at being the united socialist republic of korea, under god Kim Jong Il.
<emil^^> hangfire - i do however have a lighter with moa's image on it - and when i open it it plays the east is red
<tortus> hangfire: of course, we should recognize that south korea and north korea have different politics..no?
<Hangfire> emil^^ yeah gotta love tacky chinese commercialism at it's finest
<Hangfire> especially knowing that mao would TURN in his grave at it
<Hangfire> <3 it
<emil^^> hangfire - gotta love ebay :)
<Hangfire> every ****ing dig I can get in at mao I enjoy it to the max
<tortus> hangfire: ancestor worship makes cult of personality more possible
<squidink> China is modernizing, they have issues, lots of them, but i think most countries with 1.3 billion mostly uneducated people would.
<squidink> for example, the chinese constitution promises all kinds of rights, but invalidates all of them with the last line, that the state shall always supersede the individual.
<Hangfire> tortus show me where the cult of personality is existant right now in china
<tortus> china middle cl*** is 200 million right now. compared to the entire pop of the us, that is something
<Hangfire> where they still see mao as the father figure etc etc
<squidink> then theres the forced labor, and pollution, etc.
<Hangfire> bah
<Hangfire> squidink did you hear about B.A.T. in NK?
<squidink> so yes, china has some major hurdles before we start taking vacations there.
<Hangfire> err British American Tobacco
<tortus> hangfire: china worships age, authority, etc. its a mindset
<emil^^> props to Hangfire - at least he know what i mean when i quote 'The East is Red'
<squidink> Hangfire: no
<Hangfire> they've been running a factory in NK for the past 4 years off the books
<squidink> interesting.
<Hangfire> it's not turned up in any of the annual reports
<Hangfire> a paper recently exposed them
<squidink> anyhow, in summary, the PRC isnt the USSR, but it aint no picnic either.
<Hangfire> and I'd say NK is way worse than the former USSR and quite a few other states too
<Hangfire> I'd say Turkmenistan is one of the few other states approaching it in that style of stalinist control
<tortus> i have said this before, but it rings true to me. the soviets reformed the politics first, and then tried to reform the economy. they had m***ive problems. china on the other hand, is reforming its economy first, and the politics secondarily. i think china is taking the better road
<squidink> NK is the worst, followed maybe by the old soviet run albania, then you have the arab dictators, and the african, then france, then somewhere below that, the USSR, and then the PRC, which is slightly above the UK.
<squidink> heh
<Hangfire> squidink you should check out turkmenistan
<squidink> surviellance state.
<Hangfire> the president there had renamed friday to Turkmenbashiday
<Hangfire> ROFL
<squidink> UK is headed towards ubitiquous law enforcement.
<Hangfire> I'm serious
<squidink> i ignore turkmenistan, and most of the stans.
<tortus> uk is headed towards islam
<squidink> the stans are all ****ed.
<squidink> especially pakistan.
<Hangfire> true
<Lotec> Hang, don't most countries have their own names for the days?
<squidink> hell, i have my own names for the days
<Hangfire> Lotec yes but the president named friday after himself!
<Hangfire> ROFL
<tortus> one of the perks in some nations
<Lotec> I hope it's easier for them to say than us
<Hangfire> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/2181151.stm?
<Hangfire> there it is
<Hangfire> Mr Niyazov proposes to rename January Turkmenbashi after his official name, which means Head of all the Turkmen.
<Hangfire> ok
<Hangfire> got it wrong
<coldstove> I guess china has much more population than korea, so they reproduct themselves so fast even in the states...
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