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<tortus> not much secrecy going on
<Linus--> Katey, the bird flu will hit us all if unleashed
<Linus--> we don't have the vaccines
<tortus> and nevada renamed that hiway, for touristas
<Linus--> one company holds the patent and its six plants can't make enough fast enough
<tortus> but don'[t tell anyone
<bmc> i hear about all this nanotech ****
<Linus--> they are being pressured to sell out to generic cos
<Katey> Linus--, sure. But less developed or prosperous regions would be less able to cope with it
<bmc> shouldnt there be advancements in solar panel technology
<TheTailor> Katey, why would that make one a heartless bastard?
<Linus--> i think the WHO should have the means necessary to buy out drug patents
<Linus--> in times of impending doom
<TheTailor> It's the way things are.
<alh> they researched solar panels a lot at my univ..
<Katey> TheTailor, looking at that as a possible "plus" that would emerge from the pandemic would be pretty heartless, I think
<bmc> shouldnt they be able to harness more of the suns energy
<alh> they printed them. cheap solar cells
<Linus--> Katey, it would stem the flow of offshoring!
<Katey> TheTailor, I think you might have missed the earlier part of that conversation
<tortus> solar research has moved beyond solar panels
<bmc> seems like it is outputting much more than the small amounts we get with solar panels
<Linus--> theyve recently had a breakthrough in solar panel costs and chip size
<bmc> what about efficiency
<haku> yes
<bmc> and lifespan
<Linus--> they have developed a non-silicon based collector
<haku> you can reduce the suffering in the world by letting the poor and suffering die
<haku> this is really quite logical
<TheTailor> Maybe, and I agree, looking at it as a plus is pretty heartless.
<Linus--> we can have less poor and suffering if catholic church wouldnt deny africans the use of condoms
<bmc> haku what about taking the rich and non-suffering out? and dividing their **** among the suffering and poor?
<TheTailor> tortus, moved to what?
<bmc> :P
<Linus--> bmc, theyd squander it on smokes and lottery tix
<Linus--> ;)
<bmc> thats why you have so much poverty
<Linus--> ok
<tortus> tailor: i don't know
<Linus--> lottobacco!
<Linus--> conspiracy
<bmc> because a very few have most of the wealth
<bmc> and most have very little wealth
<Linus--> bmc, on that we agree
<Katey> bmc, heh. So now you're a marxist revolutionary?
<Katey> make up your mind, dammit!
<bmc> no
<Linus--> the variance isn't getting any smaller either
<bmc> thats the problem we have though
<bmc> its because its been allowed to turn into that
<Katey> It's always been like that
<Linus--> I'm convinced a market economy couldnt survive without a working poor cl***
<KoBushi> It's not that it's "been allowed" so much that it can't be avoided
<Katey> At least as long as there's been civilization
<Katey> Some people end up with most of the wealth/power
<Linus--> so theres really not a lot of desire to rectify the situation
<Katey> And they get everyone else to work for them
<Linus--> its legal slavery in a way
<bmc> it goes back to the lords and serfs
<bmc> we are permitted to live on their property
<KoBushi> People aren't inherantly equal in skill, or motivation.
<bmc> within their protection
<haku> helping the poor and suffering just causes more suffering in the world
<bmc> they control the means of production
<KoBushi> That is why people cannot be made economically equal
<bmc> they control the means of distribution
<haku> if you help starving ppl out theyll just produce more starving ppl
<Linus--> if everyone had a decent slice of the pie, then noone would work for **** wages anymore
<bmc> we pay them a tax to sell our product
<Katey> Linus--, yeah. But does it have to be a permanent existence? Couldn't it be easier to move out of poverty? You'd still have people that start out or end up poor for a period of time.
<haku> thta is the sad fact about reality
<bmc> we pay them a tarriff to move our product
<bmc> we are under their protection, within their walls
<bmc> we are serfs.
<Linus--> kat, i don't know
<KoBushi> Katey there is a vast amount of cl*** mobility in the US
<gopp> Linus-- are you good with ecomonics
<Katey> KoBushi, between middle and upper cl*** that's true
<KoBushi> Katey the image that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor isn't realistic
<gopp> KoBushi yes thierfore no need for goverment help
<Linus--> seems to me though theres no impetus for those with money to raise up those w/o
<Katey> KoBushi, but that's much less true for people with below poverty level income
<KoBushi> Katey there is a lot of mobility from poor to middle, and from middle to poor, and from poor t rich, and from rich to poor
<gopp> who are this people below pverty line
<Linus--> it bothers me that someone can work 40+ hrs a week and still live in poverty
<bmc> not below poverty line
<gopp> why are they poor
<Linus--> i mean, they're working!
<Linus--> they're trying
<bmc> look, i dont know what plant you ppl are from
<Katey> KoBushi, That's not been my observation.
<gopp> then he not working smart Linus--
<bmc> but here on earth, if you live in a $500k home
<bmc> you aint middle cl***
<gopp> Linus-- do you work 40 hours and are still poor do you
<Linus--> bmc, a 500k home doesnt exist in my area
<KoBushi> Katey but again... everyone can't be guaranteed that they'll make use of that potential mobility... people aren't inherantly equal in skill or drive.
<Linus--> everything is 700k and up
<gopp> Linus-- do you work 40 hours and are still poor do you
<bmc> middle cl*** $30k-$70k/annual salary
<Linus--> median price is 866k
<gopp> Linus-- why are you not poor
<bmc> thats the 'working' cl***
<Linus--> bmc, 30k is low end
<tortus> you could work 40 hrs per week t min wage 5.35 and still take home less than you need to pay for housing for one
<gopp> maybe becuase your educated
<Linus--> if you support family
<Katey> KoBushi, I just don't believe that it's equal though. The mobility between working/middle income people and upper cl*** status is much more fluid than it is for people living below the poverty line
<tortus> then you have the food problem
<KoBushi> Katey yeah, that's true I agree... but I think that's an effect, not a cause.
<gopp> Katey how so
<gopp> Katey both need to take risk
<Linus--> even 9/hr doesnt cut it for family support
<haku> maybe they shouldn't have a family
<gopp> Katey the rich can become poor
<gopp> and the poor become rich
<gopp> simple logic
<bmc> even without kids $9/hr isnt enough to live on
<Linus--> oic, poor people are deprived of another thing
<bmc> without scraping by
<haku> actually 9$ an hour is enough
<KoBushi> Katey there are many people with no drive, because they have already convinced themself's that they can't succeed.
<Katey> Well, if you have kids it really complicates the process of pulling out of poverty
<gopp> KoBushi I agree
<haku> poor ppl in this country have xbox and cable tv
<gopp> Katey so why do you have kids if you can't afford them
<bmc> thats because they are living beyond their means
<Katey> the cost of kids and their care while you work makes it very tough to train for a higher skill job
<haku> they spend their money on booze and illegal drugs
<Katey> gopp, no ****
<Katey> gopp, but it happens anyway
<gopp> don't knock or rock
<bmc> we have to high of an expectation for quality of life
<gopp> if you can't afford it
<bmc> we do not have a right to 'the good life'
<Linus--> KoBushi, and then there are those with a strong work ethic, but a poor educational background
<tortus> you cannot pay for childcare for one child if you get minimum wage
<gopp> Katey so let not allow it to happen
<KoBushi> Katey sure, but most of the people who remain poor don't have the drive to train for skilled jobs to begin with
<bud``> dont have kids till you have $100k equity and **** thats payed off.
<bmc> so if the working people cant live 'the good life'
<tortus> childcare is more than min wage takehome
<Linus--> people that are willing to work an honest days work should not live below poverty line
<bmc> why should the wealthy be able to?
<bmc> even the scale
<Linus--> regardless of education level
<Katey> Well, it just seems to me that we lose a lot of potential economic productivity with 37 million people sort of stuck below the poverty line
<gopp> Linus-- they have no right
<KoBushi> Linus-- sure, but that can be rectified if the person has to will to do so.
<bmc> tax the wealthy until they are hurting as much as the working man
<gopp> Linus-- not everyone has that will
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