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<FreeTrade> I think that was essential to our own security
<FreeTrade> Herzen, not its American history
<Herzen> You can't sit and be isolationist
<FreeTrade> Swigert..
<IamKing> Swigert: yes, a POS :P
<IamKing> but adequate for laptops that don't do much graphics
<FreeTrade> You are an expert in American history, would you not agree with me that the GOP before WW2 was the anti war party ?
<Swigert> iamking: could it take Civilization 4, which suggests 64MB?
<FreeTrade> It was.
<Herzen> I think that U.S. before WW2 was isolationist in General
<IamKing> Swigert: maybe...maybe not
<Swigert> FT: they were isolationist
<Herzen> I'm not disputing that GOP was Anti-War
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - There was no republican-wide aversion to the Vietnam War.
<FreeTrade> But a lot of individual Republicans planned with Republicans in secret
<Herzen> I'm just saying that Isolationism and 'Anti-War' itself is nonsense
<Herzen> In my opinion
<FreeTrade> Er Repeat that
<Swigert> but then the Democrats weren't too keen on war either
<IamKing> Swigert: that Intel GPU requires memory from system RAM in order to run
<IamKing> it's definitely NOT a gaming GPU
<Swigert> It was remarkable that FDR was able to support the Allies to the extent that he did
<FreeTrade> But a lot of individual Republicans planned with************ FDR ************in secret
<Swigert> iamking: okay thanks
<IamKing> Swigert: like I told you before, you should have considered an Inspiron 9300 instead :P
<FreeTrade> Let that post replace the other one
<Swigert> iamking: $$$
<bud``> the USA was supplying the allies for years, unofficially, for years before USA actually entered the war.. The longer the delay, the more entrenched germany became in its drive eastwards against naive and weak resistance... then boom, news of an allied coalition biuldup in britain spreads, and all of a sudden the germans must concede the eastern front
<KoooK> I think the US held on to its neutrality quite well up until the formation of NATO.
<IamKing> Swigert: if you intended to play games on it
<Swigert> the game was a nice idea but easily discarded
<IamKing> ah ok
<FreeTrade> Disbelief, JFK started the vietnam war
<FreeTrade> and increased the military prescense
<hans_kung> No, Eisenhower did.
<hans_kung> :)
<US_Male> gawd dammit
<Swigert> Pearl harbor changed everyone's minds
<FreeTrade> LBJ really boosted it
<FreeTrade> to the point some people called it LBJs war.
<FreeTrade> Nixon was voted in to end the goddamn war, preferably with some honor. since it mattered internationally to the russians and chinese.
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - sure LBJ is largely to blame for the vietnam debacle but to reinvision history by implying that as a party, the GOP was "anti-war" at that time is frankly absurd.
<hans_kung> And Nixon had four years to get out. And didn't. And he bombed Cambodia.
<FreeTrade> While Carter was president, Russian expansionism was huge
<Disbelief> you can be a member of a party without glossing over the party's history.
<Swigert> FT: the Republicans felt the Great War was unjust, a violation of long-established neutrality, and fought for less than honorable means (arms makers and financiers)
<Disbelief> is its required of modern Republicans to distort their party's own history or soemthing?
<KoooK> What was the UK opinion on the US involvement in Vietnam?
<Swigert> FT: They felt FDR was leading them down the same road, which is why in 1936 Congress p***ed the Nye Act on Neutrality - a draconian and tight restriction on the Feds if war came
<Disbelief> koook - "bad idea, Yanks! you're on your own!"
<FreeTrade> When Reagan came back we stopped Russian expansion it its tracks and in fact we liberated Afghanistan (now the 2nd time) but in the first case we liberated it from a foreign aggressor
<Swigert> koook: public opposed
<FreeTrade> this last time we liberated it from itself, or its own government
<hans_kung> Disbelief--some here aren't even think there was a 'liberal' branch in the GOP. Scary the lack of historical knowledge.
<IamKing> A State audit shows a computer glitch let some Michigan prisoners get out early. That audit shows the State Department of Corrections is only moderately effective when it comes to accurate prisoner release dates.
<IamKing> The State audit report shows errors in the release dates of 23 prisoners between October 2003 and March 2005. S ome were let out early, while others were let out late. Either way, the computer flaw that led to the problem leaves 1 lawmaker concerned.
<IamKing> Representative Rick Jones says if you do the crime, you should pay the time. Jones used to work in law enforcement, s o he says it caught his attention when he heard some prisoners were let out early. Rep. Rick Jones (R) Grand Ledge: "I t's very, very shocking that anybody would be released early from the prison system."
<FreeTrade> Which was also a foreign government.
<US_Male> hey guess who started the mess in Vietnam
<US_Male> (France)
<IamKing> US_Male: true, and then we took over the reins
<pilgrim`> US MALE JAPAN
<US_Male> yep
<IamKing> after the French left
<US_Male> we were fools
<FreeTrade> Swigert, Yep
<bud``> I love the video of Nixon proclaiming He *will not bomb Hanoi* with the backdrop of Hanoi being bombed to the stone age by USAF
<pilgrim`> Japan started it, ie grabbed the plantations
<Herzen> eh
<Herzen> I think U.S. had the right intentions in Vietnam
<pilgrim`> the Viets were mad; they had gotten along with the French b4 the war
<Herzen> Just mismanaged as hell
<US_Male> we were ****ers taking over in Vietnam
<US_Male> I mean, we could have won had we done it right
<US_Male> but you have to either do it and win, or don't do it
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim people often forget the imperialism of the japanese military in asia and in manchuria
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - we didn't 'liberate' afghanistan in the 1980s. We gave sophisticated weapons to a bunch of religious zealots who happened to hate the same people we hate the same people we hated. You love hagiography, don't you.
<FreeTrade> Russians actually feared Japan
<IamKing> bud``: but we should have
<pilgrim`> during Jap occulation a US OSS operative snuck in an agitator to cause all sorts of hell for the Japs. know his name? Ho Chi Minh
<Swigert> FT: but Pearl Harbor changed everyone's minds - there was only one dissenting vote to declaring war on Japan: a Republican, Jeaneette Rankin of Montana
<bud``> IamKing should have what?
<IamKing> bud``: bombed Hanoi back into the Stone Age
<pilgrim`> I know because that OSS operative is gone, but I met his son
<IamKing> heh
<bud``> IamKing Nixon deserves all credit for pulling america out of 'nam...
<FreeTrade> Disbelief not so, if you knew the leader of the northern resistance who was the great war hero against the russian you would learn he was not a fanatic.
<IamKing> bud``: true that
<KoooK> I wonder how the wars on vietnam and iraq would have looked like if their countries had been 90% covered in pine and spruce forest
<pilgrim`> be was of Dutch and indonesian decent and could p*** as a tall viet
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - not so ? Do you deny that we gave advanced weapons to the mujahideen ? are we re-writing history again ?
<FreeTrade> The problem is after the CIA won the war in afghanistan with men and material, We forgot Afghanistan and they themselves devolved into civil war with a brutal islamic regime
<Herzen> the Mujahadeen
<Swigert> disbelief: we did and they helped, but they captured most of their weapons from the Soviets
<Herzen> weren't nice guys in the 1980s
<US_Male> I thought Rambo won that war =)
<FreeTrade> Remember in our aid to afghanistan we were not their to support the foreign fighters like bin laden, we were their to support the afghan nationals.
<IamKing> US_Male: hahahah
<US_Male> lol
<FreeTrade> Unfortunately Afghanistan was ripped in two during the Russian occupation (Or soviet)
<US_Male> those are such goofy movies
<pilgrim`> we gave stingers to the Muja yes, btw, since the colapse of the USSR, the price on sholder fired missles has dropped a lot; seems a stinger which went for around a quarter mill is now worth less then 10 grand thanks to Russki missles flooding the mart
<YYZ> yeah, but the US couldnt build a big army base in Afghanistan after the soviets pulled out
<YYZ> now they can in Iraq
<Disbelief> pilgrim - law of supply and demand!
<pilgrim`> the price on the grey market that is
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim the latest intelligence is we also provided american fighters and advisors.
<YYZ> and in afghanistan
<YYZ> w00t
<IamKing> SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australian authorities have apologized to the family of an elderly man who was given a parking ticket while he lay dead in his car in a suburban shopping center. The 71-year-old man, known to be seriously ill, went missing nine days ago and his body was found in his car in a shopping mall car park in a Melbourne suburb, police said.
<IamKing> A parking ticket had been placed on the car the day before his body was found. "It's just tragic. It must be just so sad for the family and we extend our sincere sympathies to them," local mayor Paul Denham told Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio on Friday.
<IamKing> "The circumstances surrounding the location of this poor fellow must make it all the harder for the family. It is simply a case of the parking officer not noticing."
<FreeTrade> Its no longer secret I mean..
<US_Male> so, does he have to pay the fine ?
<pilgrim`> Free yes we did, the Muja were at that time very much on our side
<FreeTrade> Its not the latest intelligence, its the latest intelligence to emerge about the war.
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim right it was the foreignors who like now in Iraq they corrupted and took over afghanistans major cities.
<FreeTrade> the mountain people in the North largely supportes Moousand ? I forget his name, a true hero and great men.
<FreeTrade> Usama ***asinated him
<pilgrim`> Afghanistan is a network oof conflicting tribal interests
<pilgrim`> there IS no cent gov
<pilgrim`> not in a western sense
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim, yeah the Taliban held the major cities, otherwise it was anti taliban or just plain in it for themselves warlords.
<TimothyW> Mahmoud Shah Mousad
<FreeTrade> Timothy, A great man.
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - the "northern alliance" was only formed after the taliban consolidated its power in the capital. there was no "northern people" who were fighting for afghan nationalism.
<pilgrim`> I know a case of two warlords who got into a tank battle over the rights to a particularly pretty shepherd boy
<FreeTrade> A real hero
<Herzen> [15:25] * Joins: GayPower (sfkdsjf@ip70-185-82-97.ma.dl.cox.net)
<Herzen> lol
<US_Male> hehe
<GayPower> why is my nickname funny
<FreeTrade> Disbelief, I suggest you study this man : Mahmoud Shah Mousad
<Herzen> because i'm homophobic
<GayPower> you mean homo***ophobic?
<FreeTrade> He immediately joined forces to resist the Taliban and arab invaders.
<IamKing> OMFG!!!!
<Str8Power> I don't see anything wrong wirth your nick
<IamKing> Eagles BARELY pulling out a win!!!
<Str8Pride> oh yeah
<FreeTrade> Hes a hero in Afghan history
<IamKing> YYEEEAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
<hans_kung> wow, battle of the penii.
<bud``> Herzen is just scary
<hans_kung> how 8th grade.
<bud``> does Herzen ever go out
<pilgrim`> he's the one a fake reporter ***asinated?
<IamKing> ****ing CBS took coverage over to 2 ****ty teams instead of finishing coverage of the damn Eagles game
<FreeTrade> Look, If your gay and interested in politics, you are very welcome on this channel, if you are here to advertise a cause you are not.
<pilgrim`> IamKing never trust media
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