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<hans_kung> Unlike capitalists who don't have NO agendas at all. Oh no.
<FreeTrade> The head of the hurricane watch center said there is no reason to suggest this is global warming.
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - where and when ?
<US-Malegg> prove that, I say.
<hans_kung> I didn't say for hurricanes FT. I said OVERALL trends for climate.
<OldSchool> Ask him if he agrees that there is such a thing tho
<FreeTrade> Its only been politicians for the most part who have layed blame on men and specifically george bush
<pymptype> I dont know about global warming affecting hurricanes but it is certainly a problem
<OldSchool> lol
<bmc> global warming is a fact
<pymptype> and regular air pollution not related to global warming
<FreeTrade> I guess Global warming started in 2000 ?
<bmc> its cause is unknown
<FreeTrade> 2001 that is
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - which "politicians" blamed bush for global warming ?
<pymptype> global warming prolly started around the industrial revolution
<FreeTrade> BMC, Global cooling is a fact
<US-Male> real scientists say that pymptype is not a scientist
<FreeTrade> you are so ignorant some times.
<IamKing> US-Male: hahahahahah
<US-Male> but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
<FreeTrade> Or do you mean global warming culture is a fact ?
<pymptype> global cooling?
<bmc> the earth is warmer than we have has in recorded history
<pymptype> based on what time scale?
<bmc> had*
<FreeTrade> Which includes catastrophic events which end life as we know it ?
<bmc> thats means it has been warming
<FreeTrade> BMC, which do you mean ?
<bmc> global warming = an increase in the global temperature
<FreeTrade> I want to know if you are ignorant or you simply misused climatological data
<bud``> pymptype in the 70's the NYT and lib scientists were preaching of the inevitable new ice age.. even moreso that todays global warming freaks
<FreeTrade> BMC, we also have global cooling
<FreeTrade> Global cooling is real
<bmc> we dont have a pattern of global cooling
<pymptype> i think he meant temperature
<hans_kung> bud``: so what? Science isn't some immutable thing.
<bmc> the global temperature is greater than it was
<hans_kung> It changes as you gather new data
<FreeTrade> it happened we know about 400 years ago or so
<bmc> thats an increase
<FreeTrade> it hit a low
<pymptype> global cooling might be real but it isn't happening right now
<FreeTrade> and then it has warmed back up since.
<US-Male> there is a pattern of global cooling, for 30 years in the middle of the last century
<bmc> thats a single event
<IamKing> FreeTrade: I heard through the grape vine that you sold your Google stock...why? :P
<US-Male> no, it's 30 years
<bmc> hows does that constitute a pattern
<FreeTrade> USmale, I have one thing to say. In the 17th or 16trh century the thames froze over.
<US-Male> bmc: you can't call 30 years a single event
<hans_kung> bud``: 300 years ago: science said you had disease caused by evil humors. But I bet you don't let that stop you from seeing a physican today?
<bud``> hans_kung just pointing out the same hacks that today are warning us of impending global warming doom were hard at work a couple decades ago warning us of impending ice age
<PomoHomo> at one time the entire earth froze over
<FreeTrade> it has not done so sense, nor had it done so before in our records
<US-Male> maybe it was 40 years... 30-40
<FreeTrade> since
<Null_Ptr> pomo snowball earth?
<PomoHomo> yes Null_Ptr
<Disbelief> bud`` - care to give an example of a person who has claimed both ?
<PomoHomo> i read a really good article on it that i could reference you to
<bmc> the global temperature is increasing and will probably continue to increase
<bmc> thats all global warming is
<bud``> Disbelief yes, the NYT peddled the issue front page
<bmc> a pattern
<bmc> it has nothing to do with what caused it
<hans_kung> bud``: since when did you believe the NYTimes :)
<hans_kung> just wondering
<FreeTrade> Iamking, I never bought google stock, I think its a very speculative buy which is going to make a lot of people broke or a lot of people rich
<Disbelief> bud`` - um is the New York Times a climatologist ?
<US-Male> bmc, if you look at the past 100 year trend that's true
<bud``> THE INEVTIABLE ICE AGE, GLOBAL COOLING, NYC TO BE UNDER 50FT OF GLACIER
<IamKing> FreeTrade: it's a gamble, sure...but a good gamble ;)
<Disbelief> bud`` - "the media" is not the source of these theories, merely the conduit for dissemination.
<FreeTrade> So we have established that Global warming and Global cooling both exist, we have achieved a great moment in #politics history.
<bud``> all actual news from our lifetimes
<US-Male> but you can select varying time periods
<FreeTrade> We should mark it.
<bmc> we dont know what happened before our recorded history
<IamKing> FreeTrade: lol
<bmc> we just make guesses
<FreeTrade> hehe
<bmc> im am talking facts, not ***umptions
<IamKing> FreeTrade: put it up on the web site with text copied/pasted ;)
<Disbelief> bmc- that's not true, actually.
<hans_kung> bmc-not true.
<IamKing> hahahah
<FreeTrade> BMC, what facts do you purport to tell ?
<Disbelief> bmc - we have the ability to analyze atmospheric conditions from thousands of years ago
<Pickle> How quickly people forget the Club of Rome
<hans_kung> there is a lot of evidence in ice samples from the artic areas that tell us a lot about climate from millions of years ago.
<FreeTrade> obvious ones such as we have global warming and global cooling ?
<bmc> the fact that the global temperature is greater than it was at the beginning of our temp records
<FreeTrade> Pickle, what was that ? I am not as up on Roman history as I wish I was ?
<Pickle> All the eminent scientists of the 60s-70s, saying that we were on the verge of an Ice Age.
<Pickle> FreeTrade: Nothing to do with Roman history.
<Disbelief> freetrade - it has nothing to do with the ancient romans
<Disbelief> god.
<FreeTrade> Pickle ahh ok.
<bmc> hans_kung it tells us?
<FreeTrade> BMC, We have the equivalent of a very short penis record of global climate history
<hans_kung> yes bmc.
<bmc> hans_kung or we make ***umptions based on what evidence we had?
<hans_kung> co2 levels....
<Pickle> All the socialists, saying that we needed socialism... After all, just listen to the intelligent scientists!
<hans_kung> etc
<Disbelief> the Club of Rome's writings should be required reading for any so-called freetrader or believer in indefinite growth
<hans_kung> tree rings .
<FreeTrade> you extrapolate off of 40 years
<FreeTrade> or 100
<hans_kung> animal bodies that were saved in ice...theres lots of stuff we can examine for evidence of climate changes.
<Pickle> Disbelief: They should also be required reading for anyone tempted to believe the global warming hype.
<FreeTrade> I think in terms of centuries and milleniums and the begginings of earth
<Pickle> Since the Club of Rome are a bunch of discredited clowns.
<pymptype> * The role of human activities in warming is still unclear, although the case is growing stronger for having detected this "anthropogenic signal" against the "noise" of natural variation.
<Disbelief> Pickle - have you ever read "The Limits to Growth" ?
<US-Male> "The role of human activities in warming is still unclear" <--- bottom line
<bud``> our petrolfleurocarbon capitalist hegemission outputs were gonna block out the sun and destroy the earth! we were all gonna freeze! nowadays its the capitalists burning abundant fuels gonna make the planet bake!
<Disbelief> pymptype - indeed.
<Pickle> FreeTrade: In the 60s-70s, the Club of Rome were the guys talking about global cooling--how we were on the verge of an ice age. And of course, we needed to prepare for this, with socialism.
<FreeTrade> Pickle, you know i belonged to the Save the Planet club, The ZPG organization. All kinds of environmental groups when I was 16 or so..
<bmc> US-Male nobody addressed the cause
<pymptype> * Current projections suggest a range of warming over the next century between 2.5 degrees and 10.4 degrees Fahrenheit.
<bmc> US-Male just the fact that it is/was occuring
<Herzen> Pickle, Its always preparation through Socialism
<Herzen> ALWAYS
<Pickle> Herzen: Yes, just like now.
<US-Male> bmc, true it can't really be shown
<pymptype> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4249138.stm links warming to hurricanes
<Pickle> Global warming! We need more socialism.
<FreeTrade> And they told us we were going to run out of oil in the 1980s, and that we were going to have global freezing if we didnt do things right away by the end of the century, They told us we were going to have m***ive starvation and disease.
<Pickle> Back then: Global cooling! We need more socialism.
<US-Male> bmc: depending on what time interval we want to look at
<Pickle> No matter what the problem is, the solution is socialism.
<FreeTrade> Pickle, We feed more people today percentage and actual than we did when they told me those stories.
<Pickle> Foot fungus? More socialism.
<Pickle> Tooth decay? More socialism.
<IamKing> lol
<FreeTrade> We are about the same temperature Pickle, when they told me we were going to Freeze
<bmc> US-Male the only time interval we can use for known facts, is what we have recorded our recorded history
<US-Male> bmc: well you can look at ice cores
<FreeTrade> And pickle, they told me we were going to run out of oil in 1980 and we have 4 times as much oil as the wildest imagination could of predicted in the 1970s.
<hans_kung> Global warming? Lets build more refineries :) Warming? Oh screw saving coastline from oil developers. Warming climate? That's right, let soccer moms fill their SUVs with glle.
<bmc> ok, i look at an ice core
<bud``> a very smart, extremely smart, climatoligist professor who lives by me had to QUIT his poition on a panel appointed by the president, because the overwhelming majority on the panel were so ****ing incredibly biased in their tenure that the whole idea of investigating the issue of global warming without prejudice is impossible
<hans_kung> one agenda versus another :)
<bmc> what does this tell me?
<FreeTrade> Worldwide there is less hunger today than ever.
<Pickle> I am amenable to considering the effects of global warming, but only after we've locked up all the people demanding more state intervention in the economy as a solution.
<US-Male> you can look at ice cores, or tree rings, or sediment layers as "recorded hisory" -- but THEN you have to interpret that data
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