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<CryArvach> hrmm one word...taxes
<FreeTrade> biff, No You are a Jew so your position is biased and very narrow
<Katey> I'm frankly pretty sick of both sides and their *****ing
<bud``> I'm riding the storm out also
<CryArvach> Katey..I even more so...
<Lupine> FT: I disagree that simply being a jew makes one too biased.. but he personally maybe, yes
<FreeTrade> I dont know anyone outside the Jewish community other than wannabes who believe Jordan is Palestinian
<Lupine> bud: we've had hurricane force winds in excess of 3 1/2 hours now.
<FreeTrade> Lupine, I said rightwing Jew
<bud``> Lupine damn. we just have a bunch of frost here
<CryArvach> Lupine its over here...excpt for some winfd gusts
<FreeTrade> I should say Rightwing Zionist.
<Null_Ptr> jordan was invaded by palestinians
<Lupine> bud: highest sustained was 104mph for a good 15minutes or so.. peak speed over 125 ( highest my buddies weather station reads )
<Rockfish> I think you could get a reasonable settlement in seconds if the Palestinians (a) stopped killing Israelis and (b) gave up their demand for any part of Jerusalem
<Null_Ptr> but it isn't itself palestinian
<Lupine> FT: ah, okay
<FreeTrade> Because A lot of Jews dont believe what he believes, Israeli Jews.
<bud``> Lupine what hit your shutters?
<b1ff> oops
<b1ff> FreeTrade i prefer cl***ical liberal gun nut zionist jew
<Lupine> bud: no clue.. I ain't going out. It's still steady at ~80mph
<Null_Ptr> Rockfish why should they give up jerusalem? they had it until very recently.
<FreeTrade> American Jews have it easy over here telling us what Israeli Jews want. But I happen to follow mideast politics closely and they dont all agree with biff in fact most dont..
<Lupine> bud: but it tended the panels
<RustyFord> not to sound like a screwball but, Jeru - Salem, salem is clearly an arabic word=P
<Rockfish> Null, because the Israelis aren't going to give it up
<bmc> hrm wait
<Null_Ptr> Rockfish that's no reason.
<RustyFord> if it was originally jewish wouldn't it be called Jerushalom?
<bmc> what abuot during the crusades?
<RustyFord> hehhee
<Lupine> RF: eh? Salem is clearly a tobacco word :P
<bud``> probably an irresponsible neighbor leaving kids bikes and toys all over the lawn, nice projectiles
<Null_Ptr> Rockfish screw the israelis. if they don't want peace, they can just keep dying.
<bud``> or a tree limb
<bmc> did they try to force the arabs out of the holy land during the crusades?
<Lupine> bud: what ever it was, it had alot of m***
<compdoc> American Jews are pretty decent ppl - at least they arent killing their nieghbors for land
<bmc> they mentioned those also, the crusades and 'lionheart' some nickname for the king
<RustyFord> At the end of World War I, the territory now comprising Israel, Jordan, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and Jerusalem was awarded to the United Kingdom by the League of Nations as the mandate for Palestine and Transjordan.
<JanetB> Bush to nominate successor to greenspan
<Lupine> neighbors huge 2 story tall screen patio dome is now in my backyard
<Lupine> almost all my tree's are down
<Katey> bmc, King Richard
<b1ff> RustyFord no one spoke arabic when it was named, and in hebrew its pronounced Yerushaliem. It was originally a Jebusite city which David conquered and renamed.
<Rockfish> Yes it is a very good reason, and if it doesn't happen there will be no settlement, Palestinians will go on killing small numbers of innocent Israelis and Israelis will kill large amounts of Palestinians
<Lupine> house two over, across the street is probably destroyed. did not put shutters up... almost all windows gone
<compdoc> Lupine, you in FLA?
<b1ff> If you can find any Jebusites to give it back to, good luck :)
<Lupine> Royal Palm fell ontop of a Honda P***port down the block.. crushed into two parts
<Lupine> right down the middle, side to side
<RustyFord> no one spoke arabic??
<RustyFord> er hmm
<FreeTrade> American Jews go to Israel once in a while come back and think they know the mid east. Well A lot of palestinians and Israelis want peace and they know the 67 border established by the UN in 1949 I believe is their real border, but they will never give back all of the land they took since 67.. And I wouldnt expect them too, I do expect them to give back most the land.
<Null_Ptr> Rockfish the palestinians can do that far longer than the israelis. any war of attrition will be won by the arabs.
<b1ff> no not when David lived - when David lived the language Arabic did not yet exist
<b1ff> and proto-Arabic was spoken only on the Arabian peninsula
<Rockfish> Null, hasn't worked out for them very well in the last 60 years
<Null_Ptr> isnt arabic only like 1200 years old
<FreeTrade> Otherwise it just stokes the fire of mideast fanatcism on all sides.
<bud``> Lupine you sure your friends weather station doesnt max out at 125
<b1ff> tes
<bmc> that land has been conquered and recolonized so many times
<b1ff> yes, arabic is a relatively new language
<Lupine> bud: that is what I said, it's maxed out at 125mph. that is as high as it'll read
<bmc> i dont see how any culture can lay claim to it
<FreeTrade> Islam is about 1200 years old
<bmc> especially the israelis
<bud``> Lupine ah didnt see
<bmc> their religion doesnt give them the right to claim it
<bmc> nobody else follows their religion
<FreeTrade> Did David Live ?
<Lupine> bud: it's a cool setup.. not only temp/wind but pressure, humidity, precipitation etc
<compdoc> bush has named a replacement for alan greenspan
<Lupine> bud: with a RS232 connection to his computer.
<Null_Ptr> comp no way
<FreeTrade> How much of the bible is false or misunderstood historically and how much is myth and voodoo and god.
<Null_Ptr> oh ****
<Null_Ptr> sell it all
<b1ff> anyway RustyFord the Arabs call Jerusalem "al-quds"
<JanetB> I said that and no one listened
<bud``> Lupine yeah my dad has one of those, it's some wireless setup he got from canada, guess its illegal for sale in usa cause of the frequencies it uses
<JanetB> Ben something
<FreeTrade> Foe example we now know the red sea was actually misinterpreted and moses parted the REED sea which is a shallow sea of reeds.
<Rockfish> The British conquered it legitimately in war, the British gave it to the UN, the UN gave it to the Jews, that's about as legitimate a claim as anyone will have
<Lupine> bud: could be, it's expensive, but pretty accurate
<FreeTrade> So most likely what he did is parted the reeds to escape.
<FreeTrade> Only there is substantial evidence Moses died there.
<bmc> Rockfish it was conquered legitimately, heh
<bmc> you dont get to just take countries over
<RustyFord> ahh cool bi11 didn't realise that
<bmc> wasnt*
<RustyFord> biff
<FreeTrade> Im talking anthopological and archeological.
<bud``> Lupine yah, if its like my dads it has wind speed/direction, rainfall, humidity, forecast, all that
<Rockfish> Bmc, yes, in World War I, the Ottomans picked the wrong side, their loss
<bud``> It's really neat how it measures rainfall
<bmc> it doesnt work like that anymore
<FreeTrade> The British didnt conquer it in war they had no desire to keep it.
<bmc> we dont allow others to just conquer and colonize other nations
<b1ff> the british more like inherited it when the Ottoman empire collapsed
<bmc> and we DO have the ability to stop it
<FreeTrade> The Americans, French, British won it..
<Rockfish> In war we do
<bmc> or reverse it
<b1ff> Ottomans had sided with the Austro-Hungarian empire
<bmc> israel without allies is a nation destined to fail
<FreeTrade> But Britain took over palestine from the Germans and the Ottomans.
<FreeTrade> Or Turks
<RustyFord> Hebrew is one of the world's oldest languages, spoken and written today in much the same way as it was more than two thousand years ago. After ceasing to exist as a spoken language about 250 B.C., it was reborn as a modern language in the 19th century, and today it is the principal language of the State of Israel.
<Rockfish> It's a good thing Israel has allies then
<RustyFord> interesting
<bmc> so long as they play by the rules
<pymptype> modern hebrew isnt the same
<b1ff> RustyFord older than that even
<bmc> which means the pullout goes forward
<FreeTrade> I am not against one or the other, I want to see what our government wants to see.. Two states side by side in peace.
<RustyFord> so basically, aramaic is the language of the day
<b1ff> modern hebrew is very similar to biblical hebrew
<pymptype> FreeTrade do you agree that Israel must give up part of Jeruselum?
<b1ff> a few grammatical changes
<b1ff> pymptype to who, Jordan?
<pymptype> no Palestine
<bmc> i saw we make jerusalem int'l
<bmc> say*
<bmc> owned by no single nation
<FreeTrade> Pymp Absolutely or it needs to be administered by a neutral party
<pymptype> yea
<b1ff> bmc will never happen - someone always owns something
<b1ff> thats what the roman catholic church wanted - for them to control it
<b1ff> hahaha
<b1ff> good luck
<bmc> america or israel doesnt have a monopoly on judeo-christianity
<bmc> it belongs to all people
<FreeTrade> bmc, that has been an often suggested idea because its a holy land for Jews, Christians and Arabs.
<RustyFord> b1ff to be honest before i got into all this historical confusing mess, i always thought that when whats his face rode his chariot into heaven, two different sides saw the same thing but interpreted it differently
<b1ff> anyway under Israel, all can visit the holy sites. When the Arabs controlled it, that wasn't true.
<RustyFord> and since then, we have always had problems hehehehhe
<FreeTrade> Yes but we are talking about the future not the past
<FreeTrade> if you want to go on about the past continuously noone looks good.
<b1ff> RustyFord you mean mohammed? the quran NEVER mentions Jerusalem! it says he left from the "farthest mosque" but al-aqsa wouldnt be built for hundreds of years.
<RustyFord> b1ff nope
<b1ff> it wasnt the farthest mosque - it wasnt built yet
<RustyFord> who was the guy in the bible who went to heaven in a fiery chariot
<b1ff> muhammed rode to heaven on his horse buraq from "the farthest mosque"
<b1ff> you mean ezekiel
<FreeTrade> Look, In my opinion all your religions are false so it doesnt matter to me about how the occured.
<b1ff> prophet ezekiel
<RustyFord> yeh i think thats the guy
<bmc> who lived in the land of 'canaaan' when the israelis occupied it
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