| |
| |
| |
|
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78
<FreeTrade> US-Male, you are a scientist.
<Hangfire> it's in the damn dictionary FT!
<FreeTrade> What is a theory.
<Disbelief> hirogen - "always, but not all" ? which is it
<FreeTrade> you are a paid scientist
<IamKing> Hangfire: uh, theory != fact
<Disbelief> freetrade - hangfire is reiterating what i said earlier, that a hypothesis isn't a theory.
<Hangfire> Hypothesis != Theory
<Hangfire> Theory = Fact
<IamKing> Hangfire: please don't confuse the two
<FreeTrade> A theory can be ahypothesis.
<IamKing> Hangfire: BZZZT! wrong again!
<Hangfire> FreeTrade only in colloquiallism
<US-Male> well -- there are multiple defintions
<Hangfire> in it's exact definition in the sciences it's a fact
<IamKing> Hangfire: same for your ignorant statemant that "theory = fact"
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - okay then, in that case, Creationism is as equal a theory as Evolution, right ?
<US-Male> here's #1 on m-w.com
<US-Male> "A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. "
<IamKing> Hangfire: BZZZT!! wrong again!
<Airbuster> www.dictionary.com
<FreeTrade> US Male, explain ?
<Hangfire> 1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
<onebox> they hate us because we're better
<IamKing> Hangfire: the ANALYSIS of facts, NOT FACT ITSELF
<onebox> that's all there really is to it
<Airbuster> who hates us, onebox
<IamKing> Hangfire: again, YOU ARE WRONG ;)
<Pickle> hirogen: As long as we're not being racist, I'll point out that the Indians and Pakistanis who moved to western Canada did indeed work hard and develop high average standards of living--and their (rich) children are STILL the main drivers of gang-related crime in BC and Alberta. Despite all the opportunities they have, they still engage in violent criminality. The moral of the story: Don't be too sure of your own superiority, as it may not be universal.
<US-Male> FT well basically -- you observe data and make a theory based on that data, to explain it
<onebox> turd-worlders Airbuster
<onebox> lol
<FreeTrade> US Male but you are a scientist, you start out with a hypothesis and you try to demonsrtrate it theoretically then you try to prove it experimentially, no or yes ?
<Airbuster> onebox, I suppose envy has a lot to do with it
<US-Male> FT: well hypothesis, yes you try to prove experimentally
<FreeTrade> US, but the theory is not fact or may not be fact. Obviously any theory or hypothsis can be fact.
<FreeTrade> Fact meaning its true
<FreeTrade> its subject to the same result every time.
<onebox> they've been proven overwhelmingly inferior on a technological and organizational basis
<US-Male> FT: hypothesis is earlier in the process
<Lupine> FT: not always.. often, the big "discoveries" work the opposite manner. They have unexplained data.. that leads to the hypothesis
<Airbuster> but also hatred among the 3rd-worlders is actively stoked by their own governments because they're afraid of our ideas
<Disbelief> hirogen - its really not valid to compare one group who chose to emmigrate with one that was forcibly imported.
<US-Male> a hypothesis is more tentative
<Airbuster> Liberty is no friend of dictators
<FreeTrade> Atomic theory is theory not fact, though it has a high degree of being lets say close to facts, but in the last 30 years alone we have blown atomic theory a new ***hole and disproved many aspects of our theory
<Lupine> Observation, experimentation and theorization/hypothesis may not happen in any particular order
<onebox> remember when the white man came to the New World?
<US-Male> FT: a hypothesis can also be made for sake of argument, or can be set up to either prove or disprove
<Hangfire> From the OED a Theory is a coherent system of thought that explain a large number of otherwise isolated facts, which have survived strenuous testing deliberately designed to prove them false if they do not accord with reality.
<onebox> the word 'liberty' is tho Airbuster
<hirogen> picke: i agree there r gangs in the uk but then u get gangs in all racial groups, sorry i agree with u , especially in declining areas up north and its not so racially mixed
<Hangfire> Lupine no it's actually "hypothesis" observation experimentation and then theorization
<FreeTrade> A theory though is not proven if it were so we would not be studying sub atomic particle pyhsics.
<Hangfire> you make up the hypothesis first
<FreeTrade> explain how I am wrong
<FreeTrade> Our Atomic theory was wronf.
<FreeTrade> it was not a fact
<Lupine> Hang: not in real life, not in real science. I mean, it CAN happen that way, but it often does NOT happen that way
<IamKing> Hangfire: again, theory is NOT fact itself, only the analysis of observation of a controlled group and experimental group(s)
<onebox> gravity is only a theory
<US-Male> sometimes the process of elimination is useful, you can disprove things by careful design of an experiment
<pymptype> "i think therefore i am" is about the only thing that is proven
<Lupine> US: indeed. Often in the more esoteric fields, you can not design a test that can "prove it" difinitively, but you can design a test that would rule it out.
<pymptype> everything else is a theory
<Disbelief> FreeTrade - going back to your statement about blacks earlier...what evidence do you have that their genetics makes them more likely to die of disease ?
<FreeTrade> US, So let me ask you this, when atomic theory was established, and later proved wrong.. Why is it said that it was proven ?
<US-Male> Lupine yeah many times that's useful to me
<US-Male> I know it's one of 6 things, then I can see which one
<Airbuster> pymp, so you're saying socialists don't exist
<IamKing> pymptype: bzzzt...wrong again...if you're dead, then you are..."dead", but "are" nonetheless :P
<FreeTrade> Why has einstein said that so many theories would be disproven if they are fact.
<Lupine> US: also, many times two competing theories can have predict the same behavior/results
<FreeTrade> has = had (past tense)
<US-Male> also true
<onebox> lol Disbelief. biological physical differences. read about a heart disease study sometime.
<randym> you people are who i would see conversing in a starbucks or barnes and noble
<US-Male> then you need another one to test those
<FreeTrade> US, did you address my question ?
<US-Male> FT yeah
<Disbelief> onebox - "biological physical differences" are not necessarily due to genetics.
<US-Male> in general a hypothesis is more tentative than a theory
<FreeTrade> Disbelief, I didnt say they were more likely to die of disease I said they are at higher risk for some diseases.
<Disbelief> no you didn't.
<US-Male> but words both have multiple uses
<US-Male> err
<FreeTrade> because in aFRICA they had a need to retain salt, they retain salt more than white people.
<US-Male> but both words have multiple uses
<FreeTrade> hence they can easily get excessive amounts of fat.
<FreeTrade> er Salt
<Disbelief> <FreeTrade> It may not be eqqual opportunity but blacks are susceptible to more deadly diseases and a shorter lifespan than whites.
<FreeTrade> White people are less likely to overdose (Figuritively) on Salt.
<US-Male> FT: a hypothesis is a big part of designing a proper experiment
<US-Male> whereas a theory can be an outcome
<FreeTrade> Yes its a fact they have a shorter lifespan, I also said it was part genetics for certain diseases and partially culture.
<US-Male> the whole thing is cyclic, and new evidence may require it to be re-evaluated
<FreeTrade> Too many ribs with too much salt.
<Disbelief> this is not determined by genetics, as you're implying.
<Hangfire> US-Male you were talking about negative inference earlier on weren't you?
<Airbuster> the races are different; all adapted to the environments from which they originate
<FreeTrade> US help me with this, if a theory is a fact and it is overcome which is to say it is disproven,.
<FreeTrade> How can a theory be a fact
<Pickle> A TEACHER faces a police quiz after allegedly telling pupils: "Behave or I'll put a bomb on your bus." Palestinian-born Mazin Albarq was said to have made the sick joke to a cl*** of 13 and 14-year-olds.
<FreeTrade> and why in all my years of shool was I taught that a theory was not a fact.
<US-Male> Hangfire yeah sometimes you can disprove something more easly than to prove a converse
<FreeTrade> and what word should I know use in place of the word I used to use as theory.
<Hangfire> FreeTrade it's not disproven it's "improved upon"
<FreeTrade> know = now
<Hangfire> FreeTrade it's the "best fit model" at this point in time
<US-Male> if it is truly the converse
<Hangfire> FreeTrade best way to explain it is like this ok? You ever done a crossword puzzle?
<Disbelief> Airbuster - there is no genetic basis for "race" though. members of socially-defined races show more genetic variation among eachother than they do with out-group members.
<Hangfire> you know how you work it out there is no visible logical method of it being done
<Hangfire> you just go with whichever clue seems easiest first right?
<FreeTrade> NO it was disproven, the theory was an atom was the smallest particle in the universe, then it was the electron proton and nucleus, then it was the quark the other sub atomic particles.
<US-Male> FT well, a theory can be treated as fact "as far as we know" but later there could be more information that makes that theory get modified
<FreeTrade> in each case these theories were obliterated ad not factual
<FreeTrade> or not true
<Hangfire> FreeTrade it's not a particle though
<Hangfire> and they weren't obliterated but modified
<FreeTrade> US, but theories get completely changed
<FreeTrade> that is not modification
<onebox> i hate criminals. most blacks are criminals. however, that does not mean i hate blacks.
<FreeTrade> So what do I use as a term which we used to use for theory 30 years ago
<US-Male> FT, well sometimes -- for example Newton's Laws
<Hangfire> FreeTrade "model"
<FreeTrade> When i was a kid the world said theory is not a fact.
<US-Male> FT: but Newton's Laws are still quite useful
<FreeTrade> It is posit.
<Disbelief> onebox - "most blacks are criminals" ? could you be more prejudiced?
<US-Male> so I would not call it "changed" just modified
<Airbuster> FT, they still say that
<FreeTrade> it is a posit and it may stand as the leading theory until it is modified or disproved
<Hangfire> and newtonian mechanics still works to an extent
<FreeTrade> and theories are proved false all the time
<Hangfire> FreeTrade we try to prove them false deliberately
<US-Male> newtonian mechanics work well for large particles
<FreeTrade> so therefor are we saying facts can become non facts ?
<Hangfire> just so if we can't it has to be true!
<onebox> are you referring to the ones who are actually caught or the percentage who actually engage in crime, Disbelief?
<FreeTrade> What kind of convuluted logis is this
<onebox> it is a culture of crime
<Airbuster> a theory can be a fact, we just don't know wether it is or not... What an elementary discussion
<Hangfire> FreeTrade the scientific method
<onebox> look at their role models
<Hangfire> it's a pain in the *** isn't it?
<Hangfire> lol
<FreeTrade> The scientific method was not like this 40 years ago
<Hangfire> but that's pretty much it in a nutshell
<FreeTrade> They have adapted it
Return to politics
or
Go to some related
logs:
"#kalix" undernet
eurochat
libxklavier solaris10
|
|