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<Disbelief> rockfish - yeah, because an explosive-filled artillery shell can't cause m*** destruction at all, right?
<CanOfSpam> DARTH
<surlly> Glitch: Any idiot can make Serin, The burried migs and "tons" of Yellowcake (not processed uranium" are as useless as tits on a bull
<Disbelief> lupine - who has EVER built or deployed a radiological bomb ???
<DStewart> Disbelief, Saddam's radioactive material was in use for a nuclear program. UNSCOM knew that. Is there a reason you don't?
<bmc> the entire north east should just fall off the map
<Lupine> dis: ah yes, the old "defense thru ignorance"
<DarthBurg> at least you are talking about something that was actually found, instead of perpetrating the myth nothing was found
<Disbelief> 'nuclear program' ?
<DarthBurg> thats progress
<fonelap> you know what that is? THATS YELLOW CAKE BIATCH!
<Disbelief> the one he didn't have
<Rockfish> Disbelief, you're a moron, have no idea what you babbling about, and wouldn't accept the truth if you did, sarin is a weapon of m*** destruction, period, accept it
<Timur> god, how mind-numbingly redundantly dull
<Disbelief> Period!
<Brak55> bmc: Why's that?
<DStewart> Yes, Disbelief. Saddam did have a nuclear program. UNSCOM knew that, but you don't seem to trust them for some reason.
<Rockfish> period
<fonelap> its all about the oioooohhhhhhhhh
<occ_> rolling stones: "her satanic majesty's request"
<Lupine> Dis: yea, the one that UNSCOM, IEAE, all knew he had. Hell, Isreal bombed a milk factory!
<Disbelief> Sarin is a weapon of m*** destruction, and conventional weapons are incapable of m***ive destruction! period
<surlly> DS; Describe the nuclear program?
<bmc> Brak55 i do not like it
<^rcane> Lupine: not israel... america
<^rcane> Lupine: and it was an aspirin factory
<|Glitch|> Rockfish: It still doesn't change the fact that we never invaded Iraq solely for the purpose of WMDs. Liberals, like surlly, use it as an excuse to divert our attention from the REAL purpose of the war - the elimination of international terrorist organizations.
<DStewart> surlly, how about you just go to UNSCOM's documents and read about it?
<occ_> down with israel!!
<Rockfish> m***ive destruction has nothing to do with being a weapon of m*** destruction, the term has a specific definition, but being a moron you wouldn't know that
<surlly> Ill take that as an "I dont know"
<bmc> to many people, in too small an area, to much crime, development, bull****
<Brak55> bmc: Let me try again. Why don't you "like" it?
<Lupine> rcane: was referring to the strike by the Isreali's on iraq's nuclear facility.. and how in desert storm, saddam/iraq was claiming all these military facilities were "milk factories".. signs in english!
<TheTailor> surlly, why not take it as written?
<TheTailor> Read the damn documents
<bmc> you cant drive 1 mi and not see some sign of development
<^rcane> Lupine: well when you get venom from a snake it is called
<^rcane> Lupine:
<^rcane> Lupine: "milking" so hey.... making nukes is also called milking in iraq
<DStewart> surlly, well, **** off, moron. Here's this from IAEA's report.
<DStewart> For the first time in the history of the safeguards system, a state party to the Non-Proliferation Treaty - Iraq - was found to have violated its safeguards agreement with the IAEA by not declaring and submitting nuclear material activities to the Agency's inspection.
<DStewart> IAEA teams have been investigating Iraq's nuclear capabilities since May 1991 and following the Gulf War under terms of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 directed at eliminating Iraq's weapons of m*** destruction and the means to produce and use them.
<Rockfish> Surlly, Saddam's nuclear program was not active, I for one do not think it would be a good idea to wait until it was active to destroy it
<DStewart> The IAEA Board of Governors declared Iraq in violation of its safeguards agreement at a special session on 18 July 1991. It strongly condemned the Government of Iraq for not submitting nuclear material and facilities in its clandestine uranium enrichment programme to the IAEA's inspection, and expressed its grave concern about "evident deception and obstruction of IAEA inspectors", who were denied access several times to sites they
<Lupine> DS: *15 yard penality* Quoting citations in an debate is now allowed!!!!!!
<Disbelief> <Rockfish> m***ive destruction has nothing to do with being a weapon of m*** destruction, the term has a specific definition, but being a moron you wouldn't know that <--- actually WMD is not a specific term at all. its a vague and inherently ambiguous media term that has no basis in fact. its completely IDIOTIC to lump nuclear weapons with chemical or biological weapons. completely.
<|Glitch|> Rockfish: Now if liberals were to argue that Bush diverted attention from the war against terrorism by bringing up other issues, such as WMDs, as an excuse to invade Iraq, then I would have to agree with them. We still needed to invade Iraq, either way, but Bush should've kept the primary focus on rooting out and eliminating international terrorist organizations and the nations that support and/or provide them safe harbor.
<RustyFord> this is so cool you can go from an old civ (with improved graphics) view to a new civ view by scrolling
<RustyFord> the new civ view brings you up close
<DStewart> A total of some 6 grams of clandestinely produced plutonium was eventually declared by Iraq and was removed during the fifth IAEA inspection. Iraq declared some 400 tons of additional material including natural uranium in many forms ranging from yellowcake to processed chemicals. Much of the material was hidden; it had been moved to secret locations or buried in desert areas. Therefore, it took time to collect the material at a site
<RustyFord> this game is neat as hell
<DStewart> The major discovery has been that of the electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS) programme and its extent. Iraq took extensive measures to hide the existence of the process. Prior to the first inspection, most of the equipment for the EMIS process had been buried, excavated and moved between various sites by convoy to hide it from detection.
<bmc> what is the old civ view?
<bmc> heh
<bmc> civ 2?
<RustyFord> i am watching MacCarthur and playing Civ 4 woo hooo!
<DStewart> Equipment for a centrifuge programme has also been destroyed or removed. Particularly, some rotor and bearing parts have been removed for Agency analysis to determine the extent and the nature of the programme, while most of the centrifuge components have been crushed. Special machines used to produce the centrifuges have been destroyed or rendered useless by cutting off key parts.
<Rockfish> Glitch, given our confidence that he did have wmd I don't blame Bush for including that reason among the many he cited
<Rockfish> wmd stockpiles, I should say
<|Glitch|> Rockfish: I do, even if we found millions of them, because it distracted from the primary purpose.
<Zmurf> tortus, M*** destruction ; Plunder of the planet. M***->Energy->G***->Different density->Different Axel->Change orbit->Change of eco system and life as we know it.
<fonelap> and apparently sadaam had the ability to attack america within 30 minutes!
<fonelap> and by america
<DStewart> Prior to the first inspection, the only known nuclear facilities in Iraq were those at the Al Tuwaitha nuclear centre, where nuclear material was being safeguarded.... As a result of the second inspection, the Tarmiya industrial centre was revealed as a site for the electromagnetic isotope separation process (EMIS), a facility capable of producing nuclear-weapons-usable material. ... Iraqi authorities eventually admitted that a fac
<DStewart> In addition to its EMIS and centrifuge programmes, Iraq conducted extensive deception to hide the true nature of the chemical plant at Mosul which produced the uranium oxide and tetrachloride material used as feed material in the enrichment programme.
<fonelap> he meant like.. some american that might have been living in bagdhad
<Rockfish> Glitch, terrorism was no mor the primary purpose than wmd was, there were many reasons, no one more important than any other
<fonelap> hehe
<surlly> That';s ok DS; We didnt invade because of WMDs anyway
<tortus> zmurf: life as we know it is considerably different from other phases of life on earth. my question was, how do you destroy a planet. not, how do you destroy life as we know it
<|Glitch|> Rockfish: The war against terrorism was the central reason for invading Iraq, and Bush should've given it the highest importance. He didn't, he screwed up.
<bmc> i answered that already
<fonelap> cause people wouldnt have bought it glitch
<surlly> 6 whole grams of Plutonium! Wow, only 500 more years to a critical m***
<occ_> he didnt give it the highest importance?
<occ_> how do you figure?
<bmc> by rendering it incapable of sustaining life any longer
<fonelap> they had to fear that their lives were in immediate danger
<Zmurf> short said ; forumla is ; M*E->Ga/g= -eco
<tortus> life as we know it
<bmc> or life at all
<tortus> you mean, carbon based life?
<bmc> any life
<tortus> or life in general? or your life?
<DStewart> In the matter of the motives behind the actions attributed by Iraq to the late Lieutenant-General Hussein Kamel, it is beyond debate that concealment of components of Iraq's clandestine nuclear programme continued until at least August 1995. It remains difficult for IAEA to distinguish the actions of such a senior Government official from that of the Government itself.
<|Glitch|> fonelap: Of course they would. There was plenty of credible verifiable evidence already in the public domain that Iraq had been training, sponsoring, supporting, and providing safe harbor to international terrorist organizations since 1977.
<bmc> only life we know of is carbon based lifeforms isnt it
<RustyFord> woah I just got the great leader Homer!
<Zmurf> well, I beleve life will provail but will be different, with less gravity all life will become huger
<Zmurf> in size
<tortus> yes. that is life as we know it
<bmc> so for all we know
<bmc> that IS life
<fonelap> nah... i dont think he would have gotten near the support glitch
<bmc> all of it
<bmc> there is no mor
<tortus> bmc: perhaps life is not all carbon based
<DStewart> Although there are no indications of Iraq having achieved its programme's goal of producing nuclear weapons, it is clear that Iraq had made significant progress in weaponization technologies before April 1991. It is also clear that there remains in Iraq a considerable intellectual resource in the form of the cadre of well-educated, highly experienced personnel who were employed in Iraq's clandestine nuclear programme.
<bmc> thats speculation
<bmc> deal in facts
<fonelap> if it were JUST about terrorism the support wouldnt be waning the way it is now
<occ_> dstewart only deals in pastings
<tortus> right. that is the meaning of the phrase..ife as we now it
<|Glitch|> fonelap: Obviously not from the liberals, but that is to be expected from anti-American terrorist sympathizers.
<bmc> life we know it, is life
<surlly> Now we all know Iraq "had" a nuclear program. The french built the reactor, the Israli's blew it up with US F-16s
<bmc> because there is no other life
<DStewart> surlly, I'm sorry I couldn't quote UNSCOM, and had to quote IAEA on the Iraqi nuclear program. And I clearly didn't describe it in my own words.
<fonelap> alrighty then
<bmc> as we know it....
<bmc> heh
<tortus> i asked, how do you kill a planet. you answered with a definition of life as we know it
<Rockfish> Support for the war is waning because the media has been drilling negativity and lies into the public's head for 3 years
<fonelap> generalization time is it glitch? :P
<TimothyW> Dstewart : Iraq was trying to buy Korean Missiles also.
<Timur> anyway, how about Iran
<bmc> if it is incapable of supporting life (as we know it)
<bmc> its incapable of sustaining life at all
<DStewart> Surlly, well, no. These discoveries all have dates over a decade after the Israelis blew up a single nuclear reactor.
<bmc> as far as we know
<tortus> well, now you like the qulifiers
<surlly> Which of course was all a decade ago
<|Glitch|> fonelap: Well they voted for a documented traitor in the last General Election didn't they? It seems to me like generalizations are in order.
<Rayvyn> You can bicker over the particulars all you want but the fact remains that Wilson was sent to Niger by the CIA to look into a sale. The information Wilson looked into was contained in the forged documents. I have seen no other documents showing an attempt by Iraq to by uranium from Niger. What's more, the CIA knew they were suspect and Bush still used them. It turned out the information was false. The White House knew they were
<Rockfish> Surlly, if Saddam didn't have a nuclear program, active or not, why did he have 500 tons of yellow cake uranium?
<CryArvach> Rayvyn...and the point is?
<surlly> I never disputed that he wanted a nuke program, did I?
<Rebec> rockfish oooh I got it he was baking?
<Rayvyn> Rockfish, The power plant
<bmc> poe ****s
<Disbelief> RockFish - i urge you to read this story. http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021007&s=easterbrook100702
<DStewart> surlly, yeah. The IAEA addressed the uncertainties of knowing whether they'd found all of Saddam's program's material and equipment, given that Iraq continued well into the 1990s to conceal, never provided evidence of compliance, and retained the elements, intellectual and physical, to restart a nuclear program.
<bmc> cant beleive i used to like him
<CryArvach> Poe is great
<tortus> bmc: perhaps some non-carbon based life existed before we came on board. that would have been life as they knew it.
<tortus> could still be here
<bmc> his poerty is weak
<Rockfish> Rayvyn, the power plant was not active and the uranium was stored at a weapons site, but nice try
<bmc> poetry*
<bmc> and his short stories aint no better
<CryArvach> <Rayvyn> Rockfish, The power plant <<< errr Nevermore is the proper response :P
<Rayvyn> Cry, The point is this white house is more concerned with politics than national security.
<fonelap> documented traitor
<b1ff> Rayvyn look at it from another direction - the CIA sent Wilson at the behest of his wife on mission whose real purpose was to take down a sitting president, false documents were used, and Wilson lied to the senate when he got back about Cheney being involved in the decision to send him.
<fonelap> i see
<CryArvach> Rayvyn...bull****
<fonelap> are you on the 700 club often glitch?
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