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<mykl> I mean abortion will not really be used, more people are educated..teens should know bettr
<madsage> i think we shouldnt allow it to be used as birth control or for reason that promote lack of self responsibility
<pqdb> the right has chirch ppl, the left has tree huggers. it's a happy balance of mindless nitwits
<mykl> so I think in time, it will be a procedure that is rare
<mykl> pbdq hah
<mykl> tree huggers have the hook up on weed thou
<|bob> the funniest garfield strip ever: http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/8875/garfield4jh.gif
<mykl> I try not to diss to much
<madsage> hah mykl
<trompe> Glock21: but the public interest against murder is stronger than the public interest against abortion... a voted who is both anti-abortion and an atheist is not in any danger of being aborted
<pqdb> I recentl realized that oil companies actually want tree huggers to restrict their ability to do things liek drill and refine. they make more money that way.
<trompe> s/voted/voter
<Brak55> Glock: I can see it going to abortion in the first trimester only unless extenuating circumstances...and parental notification.
<mykl> I am gonna vote for the canidate that says legalize it
<pqdb> who cares
<pqdb> the issue is settled, get over it
<Glock21> I believe the courts should have determined that there was a fundamental right for a woman to be able to terminate her pregnancy but left it to the legislatures of the States to determine any reasonable cut off points and allow reasonable exceptions.
<Glock21> I'm still in the middle of my big blog on Roe v. Wade.
<Glock21> I only have part I on the "right to privacy" done so far.
<Glock21> http://glock21.blogspot.com
<madsage> hey even Roe now says it was a mistake.
<ChaosMage> taint no such thing as right to privacy
<madsage> she grew up into a responsible adult
<Glock21> Bah, roe can say whatever she wants, means little compared to the precedent.
<madsage> and came to her senses
<mykl> I think the right should concentrate on educating about safer ***, but they wont..so they create it....but thinking human beings will not have ***
<Glock21> When the court attempted to do the legislature's job of figuring out what is or is not reasonable legislation, it was in err.
<Brak55> madsage: So what if roe v wade gets overturned. That doesn't stop abortion it just turns it back to the individual states.
<mykl> brak: true
<madsage> yeah, its a tough issue.. and if my 13yr old daughter came home pregnent. I might change my view with a quickness.
<ChaosMage> Brak: people will keep getting abortions even if its illegal anyway
<madsage> heh
<madsage> that is true Chaos
<Glock21> I don't think we'll ever see abortion completely outlawed.
<madsage> we dont want to bring back back-alley abortions either
<pqdb> this issue is almost moot, which makes it even more interestign to watch ppl noodle over the details
<ChaosMage> it'll just lower the already low standards
<pqdb> zzz...
<Glock21> Maybe far more limited, but never outlawed.
<mykl> lets end prohibition
<mykl> allow pot
<mykl> thats what im for
<pqdb> point made. just at the mention of it ppl shut down and stop looking at actual real things
<Glock21> It's too much for the court to say that the gov't can force a woman to have a baby she does not want.
<madsage> heh, i'm for that
<Glock21> There would have to be a fetus-rights amendment for that to happen.
<madsage> weed is less dangerous than alcohol
<mykl> and im for education, too
<|bob> woah check out the babes: http://www.uploadhouse.com/images/189961139thumbiegirls.jpg
<mykl> I am for states rights, but funding of education is pretty bad, esp. for poor areas
<Glock21> Might be able to pull it off with a really obscure reading of Amendment XIV though.
<mykl> bob hahah
<madsage> heh
<tnzr> Here's a suggestion for a new animal, if some new ones get created or evolve: something that stings you, then laughs at you.
<Glock21> "nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"
<ChaosMage> that one won't last very long
<Glock21> It isn't the State doing it even if it does not outlaw it.
<Glock21> It's still the woman and here physician.
<Glock21> So you'd really have to befangle the Constitution to come up with fetus-rights.
<pqdb> zzzzzz...zzzzz
<tnzr> I dont want the constitution to be befangled
<mykl> me either
<Glock21> Me either... it's befangled enough.
<mykl> lets take it back...like after the slave stuff was taken out
<Glock21> "public use" now includes private interests.
<mykl> and women can vote
<Glock21> interstate commerce now includes plants you grow in your own backyard for personal use
<tnzr> thats so lame
<Glock21> The power to tax for the general welfare has become the power to provide welfare.
<Glock21> Silly things like that irk me.
<pqdb> where do you live, Glock21
<mykl> well thats a whole different issue
<Glock21> pqdb... central Illinois
<pqdb> ah
<mykl> some people are poor as hell
<Glock21> Heartland
<madsage> glock, we call it flatland =]
<tnzr> i dont mind welfare for ppl who really need it
<mykl> same here
<pqdb> I'm originally from eastern Iowa, but now in SC. a big difference between the 2
<madsage> heh, kidding
<mykl> i just think job training should be included
<Glock21> I don't mind welfare coming from local and State gov't.
<pqdb> taxes up there are steep
<Glock21> local and State gov't have the powers the feds don't... which includes most social programs.
<tnzr> like if welfare can make the difference from some guy who is down and out getting back on his feet or becoming a homeless panhandler, downward spiral, yada yada yada
<Glock21> And social programs are best run locally and with the accountability on local officials.
<pqdb> welfare is a fine concept if it were not human nature to make it a lifestyle
<mykl> the people who abuse it, give it a bad name
<tnzr> yeah
<pqdb> also if we didn't give our entire manufactiring econopmy away
<pqdb> it might not be an issue.
<mykl> well thats where we are lazy
<pqdb> here in the south, there simply isn't any work for a lot of ppl
<madsage> tnzr, most of those panhandlers as you say are derelicts. you would pay them to do so?
<Glock21> If your city councilman is ****ing over your homeless shelter... it's far easier to kick him out than it is your Senator, US rep, or the President.
<mykl> education should be cheap as hell because of the other countries gaining on us
<mykl> kids in India, china and Japan are far smarter
<pqdb> ppl worry about aboriotn and gays but dont' seem to care that teh middle cl*** is evaporating
<pqdb> where is the morality is making poor ppl poorer?
<madsage> thats part of whats wrong withg our society, we pay people to have no self responsibility
<pqdb> in turn created a greater demand for welfare
<pqdb> creating*
<tnzr> madsage: im saying that welfare for someone who is down and out is ok when it can prevent someone from becoming in that situation
<tnzr> err
<mykl> pbdq: keeps them dumb, so to speak
<madsage> ok, yeah thats what it was originaly designed for
<tnzr> if it can get john doe back on his feet and save him from becoming a panhandler, im all for it
<madsage> i dont think people with self responsibility can become panhandlers
<madsage> i couldnt
<tnzr> well I imagine that some people just lose their grip on the game of life
<mykl> I think kids from poor families should be given a break in education, that seems to break the poverty line
<tnzr> and i also imagine that they could regain that grip wtih just a little help (in some cases)
<mykl> yea not everyone homeless is there because they are drunk or whatever...some just made very bad msitakes
<madsage> yeah i'm no expert on how that happens
<pqdb> well, we have shut down the manufacturing inductry (since the 1970's) and now we're diluting the job market with $5 an hour Mexican labor.. and the same interests who have shut the factories and encouraged Mexicans are also the ones who would kill schools and cite welfare as a burden
<pqdb> the entire thign is backwards
<pqdb> where ppl's "morals" and reality dont' seem to meet in the middle
<mykl> exactly
<pqdb> we wouldn't need welfare if we had the economy to support employment
<pqdb> there's always gonna be slackers, ok
<madsage> kill schools? who does that
<madsage> that is the key, education and skill sets
<pqdb> madsage: the school couher crowd, and NCLB
<pqdb> No Child Left Behind is *designed* to ruin public education
<Glock21> Well, it's bedtime for this disgruntled Constitutionalist.
<madsage> americans need higher skill sets now
<Glock21> See you kids tomorrow.
<madsage> night man
<pqdb> LCLB will make public school so distastful that only the poor will use them
<tnzr> L8s glock
<madsage> LCLB?
<mykl> bye glock
<pqdb> NCLB
<pqdb> No Child Left Behind
<mykl> schools should be federally funded equally, that way everyone gets the same deal
<madsage> ok
<mykl> first off calling it no child left behind was setting that plan up for critique
<pqdb> well it makes it sound all inlcusive
<pqdb> but in reality it creates exclusion
<madsage> i'm pretty sure they spent billions more on education though NCLB than the previous administration, and demand more accountability from the spending
<pqdb> ah bs
<pqdb> accountability my arse
<tnzr> yeah that seems to be a theme lately.
<madsage> ok, well they certainly spend more money
<pqdb> on building contracts and pork
<mykl> well of course, stuff costs more now
<madsage> twords the current system
<pqdb> lots of new school, meanwhile the curricullum is ****
<madsage> so how are they killing schools?
<mykl> by not teaching
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