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<madsage-> YYZ, i am for less taxes on buisness
<YYZ> everyone will have more $ in their pockets, things will cost less, and the gov will rake in more $$$
<pqdb> the income tax itself lends itself to a buse or exploitation, depending on one's angle
<madsage-> when buisness is good, the economy is good
<Emil^> madsage - cat v. kamatsu - ... just look at the currency market.....if the u.s. dollar is low, or the yen high....well, fill in the blanks
<madsage-> and people make more money, and there is more money in curculation to tax
<mykl> i wanna start a business, but to many regulations
<YYZ> and when corporations pay less taxes, they will sell their stuff for less $ to compete
<YYZ> so people have more muney and stuff is cheaper
<Emil^> yyz - in theory.....
<Emil^> yyz - and overall i would agree
<pqdb> that's trickle down economics
<madsage-> we had a surplus of 80billion this year alone, doe to Bushs tax cuts, ofcourse he spent 800billion more than expected too
<YYZ> the way it works now, only certain industries that have special pull with government interests get tax breaks
<pqdb> like OIL
<YYZ> the whole taxation scheme is set up to benifit ppl who can bribe the government for special favors
<YYZ> oil, meat, pharm ect
<madsage-> i got a tax break, and a $1200 check for my kids
<pqdb> what's even worse than tax breaks are entitlement programs designed to fleece the taxpayer (drug program)
<Emil^> oil is a good example - bp and such are marking more money than they have EVER
<Emil^> yet looks at gas prices....
<pqdb> it's not a supply/demand problem tho
<Emil^> this is an example of trickle down economics well - backfiring to say the least
<mykl> gas prices are gonna go down...hopefully
<Emil^> and dont get me wrong - i'm no kensyian type guy
<pqdb> they've fixed the situation to insure maximum profit
<madsage-> and i spent more money too, into the economy. and i got a new house
<Emil^> and it gets wrose too
<Emil^> worse**
<madsage-> i make 50k, i'm definatly not in the rich catagorie
<Emil^> our gov't is now trying to push through tax breaks to oil companies - at the very height of their profits
<madsage-> ok night all, thanks for the chat
<pqdb> later
<Emil^> peace
<pqdb> Thu Oct 27 03:42:30 2005 EDT (GMT -4)
<Emil^> i'm all for getting rid of the read tape - allowing more oil exploration and YES (here comes the spam) drilling in anwar and in the gulf coast....but c'mon - do we really need to give tax breaks to the oil companies now?????
<Emil^> it's like - 'Well this year we're up 600% in profits, we need a tax break'
<pqdb> `hell no
<pqdb> plus the "peak oil" theory is a complete lie
<pqdb> I have recently realized the oil comapnies WANTED the overzealous environmental regs because it insured their margins
<pqdb> we're not runnign out of oil
<pqdb> but that isn't good for business if ithey admit we have an neraly endless supply
<Emil^> pqdb - what you're saying is logical and then some - who benefits from higher oils prices
<pqdb> yes, we're in a bizaare pointin hostory
<pqdb> where lots of lies are xposed, and suddenly everythign is reversed aroudn fromthe way "common knowledge" previously ***umed
<pqdb> typoes, sorry
<Emil^> all good - what you're saying is kick up the demand right? (i mean from an oil perspective)
<pqdb> anyways, if *I* were a slimey oil executive in the 70's and 80's, I'd be happy every time some I couldn't build a new refinery
<pqdb> now hjere it is 2005, we have no shortage of oil, but not enough refinery capacity. how convenient.
<pqdb> so in essence we have an artifical supply problem, but in reality therei s no supply problem
<Emil^> pqdb - the bigger companies won - the smaller ones lost.........
<pqdb> gas has been $3 but I havennt' seen ayone unable to get gas..
<Emil^> pqdb - yeah, sounds like they did pretty well i agree (no satire)
<pqdb> the entire thign is contrived
<Emil^> the smaller oil companies got jacked cuz they foudn it harder and harder to build
<pqdb> see, they learned during the oil shockes of the 70's that their biggest mistake was running out of gas
<Emil^> the larger ones - just furthered their grip
<pqdb> this time they didn' repeat their error
<Emil^> sooo.....it comes back to now and today in teh house and senate.....the bill which removes the environmental red tape - which at teh same time gives tax cuts to the majors
<Emil^> who's screwinw who?
<Emil^> yes - we can build - but NOOO that's no enough - we have to give tax breaks to BP
<pqdb> anyways. it's a dangerous time for all these lies to come out, because it shows who pays for what, and you know how politics is.. there's no telling what could.. happen.. in order to distract the public from pesky thingsl ike elections
<pqdb> I think the dip**** american public is startign to wake up and realize these things
<pqdb> hopefully it's not too late
<pqdb> it's no conincidence we have things like the bird flu. all we need is another bombing or a slow-motion ce;ebrity police chase.
<pqdb> I think the GOP counted on the post-911 flag waving to last longer
<Emil^> keep on...make your opint
<pqdb> but it hasn't made it all the way to the 2006 elections
<pqdb> so they are looking at their backup plan..
<pqdb> flu, terrorism, weather.. whatever
<YYZ> theres no way to delay that trouble comin' everyday
<Emil^> pqdb - i was with ya - but now you confuse me a little - you sound a little paranoid......
<pqdb> the funny thing is the "GOP" isn't really the "GOP" since they have been hijacked
<pqdb> nah I'm not paranoid
<pqdb> always a distraction
<pqdb> abortion. gays. that got some votes in 2004, right
<Emil^> pqdb - look it's not hard to front on either the republicns or democrats....and so far what you'veu been saying...well it applies to both parties equally
<pqdb> indeed it does, since they both answer to the same money
<pqdb> this is another error in typical american thinking.. if disliek one, then obviously embrance the other?
<pqdb> bipartisanship is such a .. bad thing
<pqdb> but its like a bad habit now
<Emil^> pqdb - if you're saying what i think you may - i agree...........perhaps
<pqdb> I got a BA in poly sci in 1993. how things have changed. see, things we takled about seriously then are all kinda.. wello. either moot or irrelevant due to new information
<pqdb> so it's all very confusing
<Emil^> pqdb - i have long held the contention that 90%+ of both parties are identicle - it was just i only heard you slam the GOP..
<pqdb> thereis a bizaare inversion of tradtional partisanship and issues in progress
<Emil^> pqdp - and well - they are on par with each other was my thought
<pqdb> well I 'm harder on the GOP because they're the ones currently hijacking govt
<pqdb> SC is a one party town, and look at what has happened.
<pqdb> err
<pqdb> DC
<pqdb> I think the lesson to be learned in hostory is when both houses and the presidency is the same party, expect extravigant pork and insiderism
<pqdb> the demos owned the congress for so long I think that's why they have a reputation for pork. "liberal tax and spend", know what I mean?
<Emil^> pqdb - if i am wrong - i apologize...but given that you only have fronted on GoP in the grand name of the american people....you kinda remind of folks like micheal moore
<pqdb> but when the rubber meets the road, they all "Tax and spend"
<Emil^> pqbd - i front on both parties equally at least........so far you've only fronted on the right
<pqdb> well I guess I can see how that happens.
<pqdb> how can one attacks democrats when they are the minority on multiple fronts?
<pqdb> show me a democrat makign bad policy and I'll piss onthem, too
<Emil^> pqdb - c'mon :))) are you telling me the democrats dotn do stupid ****??
<pqdb> but the fact is they're not making policy
<pqdb> I'm talkign about right now
<pqdb> and I'm sorry, but the last time the dems did something this stupid, Johnson was president
<pqdb> and he resigned
<pqdb> we didn't run for reelection
<pqdb> well*
<Emil^> sigh* there just weren't you're credability
<pqdb> what
<Emil^> thank god clinton never did anythign stupid
<Emil^> but no- johnson was the last stupid democrat
<pqdb> relativity
<pqdb> Carter didn't engage in a war
<pqdb> he only tanked the ecnoomy
<pqdb> ;)
<pqdb> nudge wink
<Emil^> pqdb - i dont think you meant that - just seriously - toooo many generalizations
<pqdb> of course.
<pqdb> in my field of study, generazatons are the basis of humor
<Emil^> pqdb what are you studying now?
<pqdb> I got a BA in political science
<pqdb> now I only study newspapers
<pqdb> :p
<Emil^> polysci based on generalizations of humor?
<pqdb> what
<Emil^> i think i get ya now
<Emil^> you said 'in my field of study, generazatons [sic] are the basis of humor' - polysci - no, but when you mentioned newspapers - yeah i can see the humor i think you mean
<pqdb> ok good
<pqdb> yeah it's a common thing for me.. lots of ppl make ***umptions regarind what ppl are NOT when it comes to politics
<Emil^> it is fun to fea different newspapers and such
<pqdb> for example. I'll go full tilt at the administration, and then ppl often can only retort with "well it's better than Kerry"?
<Emil^> i mean *read (sorry i'm a bad typist)
<pqdb> as if because I hate the president I love the dems
<pqdb> it's a weird thing
<pqdb> but you see this is by design
<pqdb> when it's a 2 horse town, it dumbs down the entire discussion
<Emil^> kinda reminds me of the south park episode: 'well it beats flying the airlines'
<pqdb> exactly!
<pqdb> then everyone ends up with a dildo intheir *** for being so stupid
<Emil^> hehe
<Emil^> we are supposedly the worlds greatest democracy - yet less than half of our country votes - that should raise a red flag
<pqdb> when I was an undergrad we'd have viscious debates about stuff. a lot of the "righties" were wanna cops who couldnt' wait to engage the "War on drugs", while the lefties were geenrally deadheads
<Emil^> the way i see things...is well take any major corparation - their donations are monitored - is it sooo strange that damn near every major corp in the u.s. gives equally to both parties???
<pqdb> and so for everyone else (and I mention this because I think this his how it is in the general population) it becmae a matter of watching the idealigues hash out non topics at everyoens expense
<pqdb> kinda like intellectual hijackignon a grand csale
<pqdb> kinda like intellectual hijackimg on a grand scale
<pqdb> yeah they give to both parties
<pqdb> that's the easiest and most obvious evidence for who owns who
<Emil^> pqdb - i think you've fallen victum too sadly
<pqdb> partisanship is mostly a facade for the m***es to believe they're debatign tiopics with consequences
<pqdb> nah
<pqdb> this is only irc
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