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<pqdb> this is only irc
<pqdb> I'm wide awake
<Emil^> pqdb - to only front on the GoP tho - i find that disingenious...........
<pqdb> call me paranoid or whatever, "Michael Moore".. whatever
<pqdb> why?
<pqdb> it's a reflection of the time
<pqdb> the GOP has done everythign is traditionally campaigns against
<Emil^> sure - i'm not saying they shoudl not be fronted on
<pqdb> what's wrong with callign bull**** for what it is while in progress?
<Emil^> but both parties are really the same thing for what matters
<pqdb> the GOP has been hojacked. they deserve to be called out
<Emil^> nothing is wrong for calling it what it is....just be honest and dotn just blame the GOP
<pqdb> plp need to stop ***umign the GOP is the same party. I know plenty of Reagan republicans who are losing sleep over this govt
<Emil^> see.....stop
<pqdb> stop what?
<Emil^> you really dotn belive both parties are teh same
<pqdb> ?
<Emil^> the example you give...
<pqdb> I have made no input on the dems
<pqdb> excuse me, the GOP has the congress and the presidency so you expect me to do what, b ash the Clintons? out of fairness?
<Emil^> i just dont buy the fact that you're independently fair when it comes to talking smack
<pqdb> ok the CLIntons are criminals who react to money. so what
<Emil^> pqdb - no
<pqdb> they're not in power are they
<JustH> pqdb you make a fair point....but that doesnt for a minute make the Dems any more attractive
<pqdb> godo think I'm not tryint to make them more attractive
<Emil^> pqdb - exactally - it's like you're giving a pep talk 'this is why we shoudl be dems'
<pqdb> no I'm not
<pqdb> I have no no such thing
<Emil^> pqdb - if i'm wrong - i apologize - there is a right way and a wrong way to bash bush and the republicans...championing demoncrats isn't the right way
<JustH> the gop legislators are too comfortable and not focussed on the mission
<pqdb> I'm saying "the GOP is hijacked and ****s" which is by no means "this is why we shoud be Dem"
<pqdb> I have nmo cham,poined the dems
<Emil^> pqdb - i'll shut up and listen
<pqdb> I challenge you to cut and paste where I have
<pqdb> I challenge you to cut and paste where I have "champoined the democrats"
<pqdb> see that's what I was saying before
<JustH> but voting them out wont help....cuz dems will be worse. just strap them down and work them over with a cattleprod
<pqdb> ppl ***ume that cutting down one party is implicitly supporting the pther party
<pqdb> I suport neither
<pqdb> and am happy to say so
<Emil^> pqdb - no and i respect you for that
<pqdb> but I just am frustrated on how dissing one seems to supply support for the other
<Emil^> pqdb - that is not fair i admit...........perhaps i was wrong
<pqdb> you see, it's a cultural problem, imho
<pqdb> the demos could run a mule at this point and win the presidency
<JustH> we have no choice but to vote for the GOP...but we should be allowed to torture them for laziness or complacency
<pqdb> that's a sad state of affairs
<Emil^> pqdb - that's what i thought with kerry :)) the dems did run a mule
<pqdb> hey hje almost won
<Emil^> the way i explained things is bush did not win - kerry lost
<JustH> nah...the dems have no real chances
<Emil^> and pqdb - you're right on....if kerry could almost win - well svit - it's a miracle almost 50% of our country even voted
<pqdb> basically.. we're ****ed.. and the bipartisan system has insured it during one of the darkest chapters in american history
<Emil^> pqdb - do you think there will ever be a viable 3rd party in teh US?
<|bob> "darkest chapters"
<pqdb> you see, if it comes down to whoever the gop comes up with vs whomever the dems come up with, then.. nobnody cares
<|bob> lol
<|bob> youngster
<pqdb> yeah it IS a dark chapter
<pqdb> read the Patriot act
<pqdb> is this what earlier generations fought for?
<JustH> the are at the maximum attractiveness now when they are entirely invisible.....like a fond memory of a crazy old girlfriend. the public sees all this crap happening and is indulging in a moment of daydreaming. But in a real election, Bush would win again tomorrow
<Emil^> pqdb - i bet the whigs woudl be pissed lol
<pqdb> Emil^: third party.. well hard to say.. the closest we'fvef had lately are Joh Anderson and Perot. hardly third parties
<Emil^> Perot....he almost could have started somethign - till the stockdale incident
<JustH> "who am I....why am I here?"
<pqdb> if the liebrtarians didnt' come off as nutcases they could have a shot. but they focus to omuch on weed
<Emil^> i still feel really really bad for stockdale - a war hero should not have been made to go through that
<Emil^> libertarians - if weed was their only issue
<JustH> Emil^ he died a few months ago
<Emil^> justh - i'm sorry to hear that, i didnt' know....
<JustH> yeah....i watched his funeral service on CSPAN
<|bob> pqdb: you would be foolish to wait around for a successful third party
<Emil^> he should never have been a situation to debate on national television
<pqdb> |bob: good thing I'm not waiting
<Emil^> bob - i think you're right
<Emil^> our 2-party system has done it best to make sure that cannon or will not happen anytime soon
<JustH> what we need is a better public...not a 3rd party. but dont wait for that either
<pqdb> true enough
<pqdb> the pihblic seems to be content with the current level of mindlessness
<pqdb> oublic*
<pqdb> PUBLIC*
<Emil^> keep in mind tho - less than 50% of americans vote
<pqdb> way less
<pqdb> 35% of eligible voters more precicely (on average)
<Emil^> and we dont vote for a good reason - we have NO CHOICES that we can trust
<pqdb> it' sbeen a few years since a I read these stats
<pqdb> I think voter participation might actually be up in recent eyars
<Emil^> from what i gathered it was nearing 50%
<pqdb> either way not enough ppl vote
<JustH> the public isnt really smart enough to handle democracy now......and its so large.....what smart people we have are totally swamped by the votes of mediocrities
<pqdb> well, iot gets back to an hour ago
<pqdb> mention abortion and gay marriage and you have INSTANT partisanship
<Emil^> justh - now that's an intreaguing statment :)
<pqdb> see ppl don't even realize what they're voting for
<Emil^> justh - what do you propose to fix this?
<JustH> we have too many voters...not too few...jesus.
<JustH> there is no fix
<Emil^> pqdb - and that reminds me of the man show where they tried to get women to sign a petition to 'stop womens suffereaging'
<pqdb> heh
<Emil^> pqdb - a sad sad satire, but damn they dig get a lot of votes
<Emil^> err signatures*
<|bob> It makes me sad when people simplify US politics to the point of absurdity
<pqdb> the gay thing worked out well for the gop in 2004
<|bob> people like... you, pqdb
<JustH> what will be needed is smart folks that are able to appeal also to the lowest common denominator, so entertainers will have a huge advantage....like Reagan or Arnold
<pqdb> you think, Bob?
<Emil^> bob - to be honest - your right.........but its not us
<pqdb> you think I'm a simpleton?
<|bob> I think exactly what I said.
<pqdb> eyeroll
<Emil^> bob - spend some time overseas...get to know a culture/country - learn their politics - amazingly well at least in teh west - pretty damn similiar
<pqdb> So Bob, tell us about your more complex and realistic views.
<|bob> the eyeroll, another sign of uber-subtle thinking
<Emil^> and well - there is no shame in calling american politics absurd
<pqdb> wow arrogance suits you.
<pqdb> of course
<pqdb> the wise*** snob always quits
<pqdb> the hit and run
<Emil^> hehe
<Emil^> pqdb - that's border line trolling i think
<pqdb> I have this knack for rooting out ppl like that tho
<pqdb> I've been inthe deep south too long
<ggliddy> Antarctica?
<pqdb> you see when you say **** which infringes on odl habits, it makes ppl nervous
<JustH> its not an american problem.....its a democracy problem. any system with 300 million voters where the vast majority of folks are avg....will regress to the mean.
<Emil^> justh - 2 (or 3) nights ago i got flamed here by a few....
<Emil^> i simply stated we should trade with cuba - gave example of how illionis wants to trade with cuba
<pqdb> you see, the "ME" generation has sapped our culture and economy to the breaking point..so when a "young" person like me calls it for what it is, that person (me) becomes a simpleton or an idiot or a liberal or something
<Emil^> pqdb - hint - dont mention your age in chat - it will help your credability (right or wrong)
<ggliddy> Is there a decided left or right slant to the politics of this channel?
<pqdb> except I'm 30-someting and have been ouf of college 13 years.. but still "young"
<pqdb> I Know that
<Emil^> pqdb :) 29 here..and i consider myself young too
<pqdb> I've been on this internet block a logn time
<pqdb> but that's my point
<ggliddy> Or is it a potpourri?
<JustH> henry ford was a genius who could set up a factory to get great productivity out of avg people......but.....the workers didnt get to vote for everything. if they did.....the place would never have gotten anything done
<Emil^> ggliddy - at this time of night like trebeck would say: potpourri
<pqdb> this is where poltiics is like sociology.. every generation thinks the one behind it it if full of idiots
<Emil^> ahh now c'mon.... :)) i majored in sociology!
<ggliddy> An admixture, a melange, a salmagundi, a pastiche.
<Emil^> both fields are a growing study
<pqdb> well, if I had it over to do again, I probably would have become a shrink instead
<Emil^> this time of night this is usually a very friendly channel
<ggliddy> What about other times, Emil^? Is it noticeably right or left then?
<pqdb> I haven't been inthis chan on this network for 10 years
<Emil^> ggliddy - i would say this channel slants right - some blatently - most respectfully
<pqdb> I'd say it remarkably friendlier than I remember it
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