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<ChaosMage> the rich are currently taxed more
<MikeyD> everyone is punished under our current system
<pilgrim`> no good deed goes un punished
<MikeyD> which is why more than anything, the tax system needs to be replaced
<ChaosMage> Should just go communist
<ChaosMage> then you don't have to worry about taxes
<pilgrim`> MikeyD Yeah! Kick the bad guys out so we can put our bad gouys in!
<MikeyD> and personally, the only option i know of that would work fairly is the fairtax which treats everyone fairly
<pilgrim`> guys
<pilgrim`> there is no fair tax.
<bmc> national sales tax, state sales tax, county sales tax
<bmc> no income tax
<MikeyD> no income tax, no irs, no witholding
<bmc> people who spend the most (the wealthy)
<bmc> get taxed the most
<ChaosMage> communism within the government system
<MikeyD> but proportionatly
<ChaosMage> that would make all government services free :p
<bmc> exempt food items and you dont tax the poor
<pilgrim`> the ONLY thing that wil work is what has always worked historically: way, ruin reogranization in a new political structure and a return to a tax structure just like before only starting with a clean slate and no precidents
<ChaosMage> then they wouldn't need to tax :p
<pilgrim`> way-war
<MikeyD> poor people dont buy mercedes and rich people dont by spam
<trompe> bmc: creating exemptions causes difficulties; it is better to have a no exemptions and to have a negative income tax
<MikeyD> no tax collected to the poverty level
<ChaosMage> I wouldn't put it past some rich people to buy spam
<pilgrim`> we work ona "code of laws" which just means reams of blow hards pontificating
<bmc> most all food should be exempt
<bmc> except imported items
<pilgrim`> war burns the law books and some lawyers. then we start over clean
<trompe> no! no exemptions!
<MikeyD> http://www.fairtax.org
<bmc> taxing food taxes the poor
<bmc> our states sales tax doesnt tax food as it is i dont think
<OcDoc> bmc: why are they poor?
<hans_kung> NYC doesn't have sales tax for items under 200 bucks, I think.
<bmc> OcDoc varying reasons
<trompe> bmc: that's why you have a negative income tax; creating exemptions turns small businesses into tax collectors because it makes their accounting a nightmare
<MikeyD> people are poor because they keep making decisions that make them poor
<OcDoc> bmc: are they better off in this society than they would be in others?
<pilgrim`> OR has no sales tax at all
<MikeyD> ditto for the rich
<MikeyD> ditto for the middle cl***
<hans_kung> The Peoples Republic of Virginia, taxes you for even breathing.
<ChaosMage> MikeyD: What about rich who inherated their money
<OcDoc> bmc: why shouldn't they pay at least a small amount for the commone weal?
<ChaosMage> did they make a decision to be born?
<bmc> OcDoc they would, just not on food
<bmc> OcDoc people that cant afford anything but food shouldnt pay any tax
<trompe> ChaosMage: they still use public goods... they should be taxed to reflect that
<bmc> if they have to choose between medicine and food, they should pay any tax
<OcDoc> bmc: well, in most states they don't pay tax on food anyway
<bmc> shouldnt*
<MikeyD> to think otherwise is to not respect property rights
<ChaosMage> MikeyD: but they don't have to make any good decisions to be rich
<OcDoc> except restaurant food
<hans_kung> That's the wierd thing for me. Growing up in Virginia, such a right wing state, had taxes on everything. I come up here to NYC, land o liberals and dems, they dont' even tax food or medical supplies, or prescriptions (even if it's over 200 bucks).
<ChaosMage> thereby disproving your irritating statement
<MikeyD> no, but theres very few people who are rich from inheritance
<bmc> you could cl*** the food
<ChaosMage> pashhh
<bmc> same way they do with food stamps
<ChaosMage> thats nonsense
<bmc> common food items would be exempt
<MikeyD> and even then, if they remain wealthy, they have to be responsible with their inheritance
<bmc> unecessary crap could be taxed
<MikeyD> otherwise, theyd be poor
<ChaosMage> I'd say most rich people are rich from inheratance
<OcDoc> Chaos: you'd be wrong
<MikeyD> or just say youre talking out of your *** on that one
<ChaosMage> Show me one study that backs yours up
<MikeyD> poverty is all the proof i need
<MikeyD> =)
<ChaosMage> It cuts both ways
<OcDoc> first of all you have to define wealth ... most people in the top 1% of possessions earned it
<bmc> they could also raise the income level for tax exemption
<ChaosMage> yeah but now you have to show me how many people who inherated millions of dollars are poor now
<bmc> as it stands
<MikeyD> people are at the places they are in life based on the total sum of the decisions they have made
<bmc> heh, to like $25-$30k
<bmc> :P
<MikeyD> i dunno, i dont look at people as being rich or poor, only intelligent or non
<ChaosMage> So what about the poor people who couldn't afford to pay for college?
<MikeyD> poor people are usually not, rich people usually are
<ChaosMage> what decision did they make
<MikeyD> theres always exceptions to the rule
<OcDoc> and also many people who earned their wealth were able to do so because their families were already wealthy
<MikeyD> well, lets take a look at that
<bmc> yes
<OcDoc> so the question is meaningless
<OcDoc> or almost so
<bmc> it takes money to make money
<MikeyD> why wouldnt they be able to pay for college?
<ChaosMage> because the previous generation wasn't able to pay for college
<MikeyD> does that mean they cant get a job? does that mean they cant create a good or service to gain wealth in the free market
<ChaosMage> and it all comes back to who started out rich and who started out poor
<bmc> and because tuition has gone through the roof
<OcDoc> wasn't able to pay for ... how do you know?
<bmc> whereas middle and low income wages have not
<MikeyD> i mean, im a 9th grade drop out, and im not hurting, and i never went to college
<MikeyD> hardly
<MikeyD> its how you make your decisions
<ChaosMage> MikeyD: so by your definition
<ChaosMage> you're poor
<ChaosMage> and an idiot
<ChaosMage> goodnight
<MikeyD> farrah grey is a good example of that
<panini> bill gates was a college dropout
<MikeyD> or larry elder
<ChaosMage> Luck
<ChaosMage> They got lucky
<OcDoc> rofl
<bmc> the minority is the people who make it from nothing
<MikeyD> no, i made decisions that compensated for my lack of formal education
<OcDoc> that's what all the losers say
<ChaosMage> you need to show me more than 3 names to have it be more than luck
<OcDoc> "they were just lucky"
<MikeyD> aka, taking personal responsibility
<ChaosMage> Bill Gates got lucky
<bmc> the majority of the wealthy had a helping hand in getting there
<MikeyD> theres no such thing as luck
<ChaosMage> does anyone doubt that
<MikeyD> luck = oppertunity met with prepreation
<ChaosMage> if any of the variables had changed he wouldn't be rich today
<OcDoc> Mike: sure there is ... but it's not predominant
<panini> any non-loser knows it's not luck
<ChaosMage> Any non-loser can pretend it wasn't luck
<OcDoc> panini: call it random chances then
<bmc> the poor guy goes and gets a job at mcdonalds
<bmc> with the cost of living he is stuck there
<bmc> indefinitely
<OcDoc> bmc: then becomes manager
<bmc> he can move nowhere
<bmc> OcDoc he is unskilled
<MikeyD> until he uses his spare time to do something else other than mcdonalds
<OcDoc> bmc: then saves up his money and buys a house ... then sells the house at a profit
<MikeyD> like educate himself
<ChaosMage> what spare time
<OcDoc> bmc: bull****
<bmc> likely a high school dropout
<ChaosMage> he has to work all the time in order to stay live
<OcDoc> bmc: you're making this up as you go along
<TheTailor> MikeyD, you are wrong, you need luck.
<bmc> well thats how hypothetical scenarios work
<bmc> heh
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