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<OcDoc> oh
<Oax> little things that emit an ID code when a nearby transmitter triggers them
<bmc> a magnet wouldnt mess with it?
<pilgrim`> now you too will be carrying one
<OcDoc> so if they don't work, can you get back into the US?
<Oax> magnet wouldn't do it
<bmc> 100lb magnet?
<pilgrim`> a xmiter that can be purchased for $29 on ebay
<Oax> bmc maybe if you spun it really fast nearby
<madsage> a magnatron?
<pilgrim`> oh and the RFID trasnmits in clear, nto encrypted
<Oax> but a microwave would be better
<madsage> microwave oven xmitter is called a magnatron
<Oax> RFID can be encrypted or not. most aren't
<pilgrim`> OcDoc certainly. There are guided tours up through Nogalas nightly
<OcDoc> why would you want to fry one?
<madsage> very dangerous when operated outside of its cabinet
<pilgrim`> think it through
<Oax> madsage yes but when instructing the layman about how to destroy rfid tags, "microwave" works better
<madsage> not to mention the high voltage power supply
<OcDoc> pilgrim: presumably if you left the country and then tried to get back in without the RFID they would stop you?
<madsage> heh
<pilgrim`> I am sitting on a Greek or Araflot flight. 2 towel heads with a ebay special get on. "You you you and YOU up front. pop pop pop pop "the rest of you Armenians are hedl as hostages
<TimothyW> pilgrim : your too loony. But the P***port is important. Like if your bitten by a snake or get a disease. You need all the information in the country like you was in America you will get better help if some wrong happens.
<Oax> OcDoc that would be the only thing to do that made sense
<madsage> i used to repair microwave ovens
<bmc> another bad song Soulfly - Arise Again
<OcDoc> pilgrim: well, while you're out of the country, okay
<pilgrim`> Tim anythign that can be misused WILL be misused
<madsage> not ag ood buisness naymore, they are cheaper to replace new
<pilgrim`> I have lived long enough to witness that truth
<bmc> its anus!
<TimothyW> pilgrim : when something goes wrong. People call me I get them out of trouble.
<pilgrim`> OcDoc yeah, 1920 "they would never reauire a citizen INSIDE the country to carry D...and so it goes
<OcDoc> pilgrim: I agree, but ... but
<pilgrim`> Tim youpractice resurection?
<TimothyW> pilgrim : this isn't 1920 it's 2005.
<suna> it's cmb!
<suna> :P
<OcDoc> and the SSN will NOT be used for ID
<pilgrim`> Tim 5 fingers 2 feet, same politicans...a difference that ain't a differences isn't a difference
<pilgrim`> OcDoc says so on my card
<FreeTrade> Hey all sort of a early lunch but I can be called away any minute.. I charged my phone last night but the wall side of the plug was not in. I am so dependent on my cell phone that I have to wait and charge it ;) But seriously I have a few minutes to relax.
<TimothyW> 4 fingers and 1 thumb.
<pilgrim`> I'm from the gub'mint and I be here to hep you
<hans_kung> how long does your phone take to charge?
<OcDoc> Free: that's a good thing
<TimothyW> *thinks* pilgrim expired years ago
<pilgrim`> Tim my optimism has
<pilgrim`> my belief in the goodness of mankind died the year after
<OcDoc> I believe in the goodness of the people closest to me
<pilgrim`> and I NEVER believed in tooth fairies or honest government
<OcDoc> people in their usual social state are mostly honest and friendly
<TimothyW> pilgrim : do you get the proper amount of sun ?
<hans_kung> if that was true OcDoc, why did we need govt or law? :)
<OcDoc> government and emergencies changes them
<pilgrim`> if a RDFID p***port works, a RFID drivers license will follow and as sure as the sun rises, a RFID or similar tech implant will be soon after
<KateyAFK> pilgrim`, seriously? No toothfairy?
<hans_kung> People would just 'do the right thing.'
<Airbuster> so, who'll replace Miers?
<Airbuster> ay ideas?
<OcDoc> hans: there have always been laws ... they have not always been fair or equally applied
<pilgrim`> Tim no I do not, I live in Oregon
<hans_kung> 10th circuit judge from Denver is on the top of the list, so I hear.
<hans_kung> OcDoc, so?
<Airbuster> what's his name?
<Katey> Airbuster, I hear TimothyW has the inside track. :)
<hans_kung> doesn't answer my point though.
<pilgrim`> with loony leftists who honestly believe in government control
<hans_kung> If people would do the right thing, you wouldn't need laws or govt.
<Airbuster> Kate, he has the iside track on everything
<OcDoc> hans: I said most ... you need laws to protect us from those who aren't and don't
<pilgrim`> Laws only protect the law abidning
<OcDoc> hans: actually, laws give us guidance on HOW we may defend ourselves without going overboard
<pilgrim`> but not from the law makers
<hans_kung> pilgrim, not really.
<hans_kung> well that's true.
<hans_kung> lol we are at their mercy
<TimothyW> pilgrim` : I'm not for government control. I'm for when people mess up a good thing don't call me and blame yourself for messing up the good thing.
<OcDoc> the laws ALLOW us to protect ourselves ... the lawbreakers don't care
<pilgrim`> Tim I have seen enough good thigns messed up too dang many times
<pilgrim`> go attend a county "plannign board" meeting for a good comedy act
<pilgrim`> see the evil developer say to the regulator hired to watch him "Oh hi Phil, how's the kids? Haven't seen them since we did that Maui trip"
<OcDoc> the existence of laws justifies participation in a larger society vs. going it alone with your tribe
<pilgrim`> politics, like the law, belongs to the checkbook of the day
<TimothyW> pilgrim : I'm against what Larry Ellison was trying with Identification Cards. But I'm not against having a form of Identification that is easy to use. P***ports should be like that.
<OcDoc> although what you say may be true, you shouldn't be so adversely affected by it
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim, So did I ;)
<FreeTrade> Yours is probably as high as mine...
<pilgrim`> Tim I am for a easy form of ID that can't be copied. and this ain't it
<SweetLeaf> Property taxes sux
<FreeTrade> Thanks for prop 13
<pilgrim`> Ellison is a jerk
<FreeTrade> I think my property tax is around 5000 total
<pilgrim`> mine is high becasue 90% of it is "off limit" per measure 5
<pilgrim`> me***ure 5 in OR limited taxes. "off limit" means waesel around it
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim I know Oregon is high.
<FreeTrade> is yours 5k ?
<pilgrim`> mine is a small parcel and is around 3k
<OcDoc> I know people who sold a ranch in Washington to buy a ranch in Oregon because prop taxes there are much LOWER
<SweetLeaf> My taxes are 2 grand a year cause I only paid 165 thousand for my place that is now worth 475 thousand
<FreeTrade> This is based on a appraised property worth 850k
<pilgrim`> Free I knw your house was buitl by a fairly skilled builder and is prolly worth more ;)
<TimothyW> pilgrim : how many acres do you own ?
<FreeTrade> so in Oregon you would pay a small fortune in property taxes for that.
<FreeTrade> in fact I would be forced to sell.
<OcDoc> Free: Washington has gone to a current value system
<pilgrim`> Tim a postage stamp city lot
<FreeTrade> Pilgrim I have a historical house, its not new.. but I have beefed up the structure and replaced all the electrical and pipes and added a furnace.
<OcDoc> I went to protest my re=valuation and they said ... we valued it at what you paid for it
<FreeTrade> OcDoc, Wasnt washinton always that way ?
<FreeTrade> California is based on purchase price.
<FreeTrade> So Im still being charged 180k base +1% per year and special ***essments.
<OcDoc> Free: I don't know, but it went up one hundred thou in one year
<pilgrim`> Free my house is 1 block outside of the Historical District. That district has a 100% tax defferment for the next 50 years
<Lupine> FT: I am getting charged full rate on all my other properties :-/
<SweetLeaf> FT if my mom gave me her house would it still be protected by prop 13
<OcDoc> sweet: yup
<FreeTrade> There should be a law in all 50 states which restricts property tax increased to new purchases and for existing owners a maxium 1% increase a year. like it is here.
<Lupine> $15000 to the local schoolboard alone ( and I have no children! )
<FreeTrade> But they get you on these special ***essments which they need 2/3rds vote to p***..
<SweetLeaf> no ****
<FreeTrade> But in Berkeley thats not always hard to p***.
<Lupine> IMHO: the maximum school tax should be "Number of children + one"
<OcDoc> only the taxpayers should get to vote on the tax rate
<FreeTrade> Sweet, Hmm. I think so.
<Lupine> SO, someone with no children pays for a maximum of one student..
<FreeTrade> I cant say for sure, there is special consideration when property p***es between family.
<FreeTrade> Probably someone should make their son or daughter a gift ownership while alive before they die.
<pilgrim`> http://www.syndicomm.com/~pilgrimer/pics/1650.gif
<pilgrim`> my place
<FreeTrade> I Will eventually add my kids to the title.
<SweetLeaf> that is what I keep saying to my mom to give the house to my sister
<Lupine> pil: is that a geo storm in your driveway?
<FreeTrade> You could put them on as an owner in reversion. or vice versa. That as long as I am alive I own it but that on my death it reverts to the owner with a life estate in the property.
<pilgrim`> used to be add velorum tax meant a property owner of record voted on taxes
<FreeTrade> It gets technical at this stage I advise my clients to consult with a real estate attorney
<pilgrim`> I say that universal sufferage on property tax ammoutns to taxation without representaiton
<FreeTrade> There are 100 ways to own property
<pilgrim`> Lupine was. thats an old pic
<FreeTrade> Actually its unlimited but there are 4 or 5 common ways
<pilgrim`> Lupine I drove that damn thing 1800 miles across country
<FreeTrade> A lot of sales in Hawaii are 99 year sales.
<FreeTrade> A life estate.
<FreeTrade> Vs A fee simple estate
<pilgrim`> uns
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