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<Exdeath> But someone will be confirmed prior to the first 2006 session
<DeDannan> jhicks, really? I was there about 3 weeks ago...didn't see any...
<jhicks> DeDannan: Not a holiday
<jhicks> They get all weird about people having fun
<Exdeath> I would much rather have 2 more months of O'Connor than 25 more years of Miers at any rate, I would much prefer 25 years of Rodgers Brown which would be controversial by Democrats but is highly qualified.
<West`> sym yes but we are drifting, I think the contracting money could be better spent within our own military.
<Exdeath> And I think would probably p***
<jhicks> DeDannan: NO SMILING
<West`> if you dont thats ok, i respect that.
<Lupine> *ASHCROFT* *ASHCROFT* *ASHCROFT* *ASHCROFT* !!!!!!
<DeDannan> jhicks, I dunno..I was in Sanford Stadium with a lot of folks who seemed to be having a pretty good time...
<Exdeath> Enigma's first album rules
<jhicks> DeDannan: well, you must have gotten there during an extended donut break :)
<DeDannan> jhicks, must have :)
<West`> harder for the military to get reenlistment when a company is gonna pay you 5x more to do less. :P
<Pickle> Exdeath: That's just cl***ic Republican thinking. Sacrifice abortion decisions in SCOTUS for the sake of getting a more clearly pro-life justice on the bench. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is the Republican modus operandi.
<West`> althought reenlistment has been higher then I expected.
<sym`> West`: People don't join the military for pay
<sym`> Not most anyways
<Pickle> Especially since it was obvious to everyone that Meirs WAS pro-life.
<Lupine> pickle: yea well, I hope we get a conservative activist out of this..
<jhicks> sym`: they join it to kill people and break stuff
<Exdeath> I'm not a Republican, I'm an extreme conservative that often disagrees with Republicans, I don't really think any abortion decisions will reach the bench by that time anyway, even parental notification from Oregon or whatever
<jhicks> that's what our military excels at!
<West`> no, but in this life, we all know money...
<sym`> If someone told me they were joining any branch for the money I would look at them oddly
<Exdeath> pro-life is certainly not my own to die issue...
<jhicks> nation-building they aren't so good at
<DeDannan> lots of folks join the military because it provides them a way up or a way out...
<sym`> West`: Well, you're the one that just made the reason of hurting re-enlistment due to lack of pay
<eurolite> government aint nothin but organized mafia
<Pickle> Lupine: Unlikely. I doubt that anyone more conservative than Meirs is going to be on the Bench--and if I were Bush, I'd be looking at a candidate that would unite Democrats and moderate Republicans, just to punish the far right for their disobedience.
<jhicks> but if you want people killed and stuff broke our military is the best in the world
<sym`> West`: And gave an example of contractors pay
<Exdeath> I think Rodgers Brown could very well be on the bench, she is ridiculously qualified as compared to Miers who wasn't.
<XS0ap> roe is settled law. all conservatives can do is put minor restrictions on access to abortion.
<Exdeath> And I think she could p*** once the hearings happen, she is incredibly articulate, has a long history, and is very popular among conservatives.
<Lupine> WHAT your computer does when you are not looking: http://www.justracin.net/is.swf
<jhicks> Personally, I think that killing people and breaking stuff is the proper job of the military.
<eurolite> viva la mon carde
<hans_kung> Jim, she's dead.
<West`> I was reffering to you saying not all people join for money, I totally agree with that. But at 22 or so when your first 4 years it up, More money is certainly interesting.
<Lupine> jhicks: well, most of those in security details are former military..
<Exdeath> And Rodgers Brown certainly is more conservative than Miers, who advocated in favor of some affirmative action issues and other things conservatives don't generally like
<jhicks> Lupine: Yeah
<jhicks> And when they become cops they forget they aren't in the military any more
<Pickle> Rodgers Brown is a conservative pipe dream.
<Pickle> Bush will not be selecting anyone who doesn't meet the approval of the "gang of 14".
<sym`> Lupine: Thatd make an awesome screensaver
<b1ff> XS0ap roe is not settled law... nothing really is. it's like saying slavery is settled law.
<jhicks> My veteran cop buddy hates ex-military rookies worst of all
<Exdeath> I think Rodgers would have the votes after the hearings regardless
<jhicks> He says they'll get you killed
<b1ff> not only that, roe being overturned wouldn't ban abortion, anyway
<XS0ap> b1ff if a conservative court overtuns roe that would be 'judicial activism'.
<Pickle> Conservatives need to get over this fantasy of getting a Bork clone on the bench. It's not going to happen. EVAR.
<jhicks> Bork Bork Bork
<Exdeath> It did with Scalia and Thomas
<Exdeath> With most of the same actors involved this time around
<b1ff> pickle im conservative and i dont like bork - he doesnt interpret the 2nd amendment as meaning an individual right to bear arms
<jhicks> Pickle: Bork had pretty bad hair as i recall
<DeDannan> jhicks, and an even worse beard
<jhicks> poor sym` is depressed
<DeDannan> looks kinda like a Dr Seuss character really
<jhicks> yeah :)
<DeDannan> one of those Who's from Whoville
<jhicks> Grinch
<Pickle> Exdeath: That was then. This is now, when any nominee who hopes to survive has to mee the approval of a moderate coalition that WILL NOT approve of another Bork.
<jhicks> Such a sunny fellow
<DeDannan> heh, they didnt approve the first Bork :)
<shisumasu> Bob Dole
<hans_kung> hehe no kiddin
<DeDannan> bork bork bork
<Pickle> Or any other blatantly anti-Roe v. Wade nominee.
<FreeTrade> back for a few.
<jhicks> DrFreud-: got any good coke today?
<XS0ap> bush should nominate gonzales and make it easy on himself.
<FreeTrade> Bork, was unfairly treated, in fact slandered and libeled whether or not you like him personally.
<jhicks> gonzales wouldn't be easy
<Exdeath> Well personally I think Roberts will turn out to being expressedly pro-life, but that's what they said about Souter too
<Pickle> Bush should nominate a moderate liberal.
<Pickle> Another O'Connor.
<hans_kung> fine line for Bush, has to pick someone with enough of a record to make everyone happy, but too much of a papertrail, and it gets iffy.
<jhicks> FreeTrade: He was too entangled from the Nixon era
<FreeTrade> Most lawyers I know thing he is a legal genius including leftwing lawyers. But they and I wouldnt want him on the court. I have my own reasons.
<FreeTrade> thing = think.
<DeDannan> Robert "Mr Saturday Night M***acre" Bork...crapped in his own nest...
<Airbuster> Exdeath, Republicans have been notorious for choosing dark-horse candidates that ended up major disappointments
<jhicks> DeDannan: that's right
<hans_kung> how did he do that DeDannan?
<Exdeath> Airbuster, I agree
<jhicks> hans_kung: he fired the watergate prosecutor
<hans_kung> oh
<DeDannan> hans_kung, senators have long memories I guess..and didn't take kindly to Bork being the hatchet man for Nixon...
<jhicks> made him somewhat radioactive
<FreeTrade> But this was the first time I think in history, though I would have to review it futher, but in my own lifetime this was the first time a presidential nominee was **** on by son many democratic activists.
<Pickle> hans_kung: Bush doesn't have to make everyone happy. He doesn't have to pander to the extreme wings on either side (as he didn't with Roberts), nor should he. As we've seen with Meirs, the far right isn't worth pandering to, they're too ****ing dumb.
<b1ff> eh?
<FreeTrade> And the democrats did start this practice of bashing judical nominees, in my lifetime anyway
<jhicks> FreeTrade: sometimes crapping is justifiable?
<FreeTrade> maybe thier was a period before I was born when this happened..
<b1ff> lololol pickle, too dumb? miers was a leftist nominee - it was SMART to oppose her
<FreeTrade> But in my lifetime judicial appointments were the presidents choice unless you could find avery compelling usually moral reason for which the judge should not be on the bench.
<jhicks> she's not leftist b1ff
<b1ff> miers supported abortion and affirmative action, and shows no sign of being a constitutional originalist
<b1ff> damn right she is
<jhicks> no
<FreeTrade> Crapping is never justfiable because they crapped on the constitution as well..
<jhicks> FreeTrade: ok, good point
<DeDannan> FT, refusing to uphold the law should be pretty compelling...
<b1ff> she was a terrible nominee from the point of view of Bush's base
<DeDannan> thats what Bork did
<DeDannan> and thats what cost him
<Pickle> b1ff: Meirs is a leftist? That's the biggest pile of **** I've heard here in a while. Not only is she not a leftist, she was *obviously* pro-life, and Bush intended to push her in as a stealth conservative. Only the far right was too much a bunch of tards to get the hint.
<jhicks> "plz move the constitution b4 crapping on da bork bork bork"
<b1ff> pickle she was not! quotes came out 2 days ago proving otherwise
<Exdeath> Yeah but Miers had also advocated for pro-affirmative action clients...
<XS0ap> leftwing born again christian :)
<jhicks> b1ff step away from the crack pipe
<b1ff> ill find the article
<b1ff> s
<FreeTrade> The model is Republican one, if the president picks them, unless you find something which is a moral problem (She robbed a bank 15 years ago) or had shady connections to the mob. Otherwise you give a fair up and down vote.
<eurolite> dont smoke crack, lick crack
<b1ff> she also favored affirmative action
<XS0ap> conservative jurists tend to be ideologues.
<jhicks> I am sure b1ff will be quoting out of context
<FreeTrade> Ded, Bork was lied about in the proceedings because the left had an all out campaing to bork him.
<jhicks> character ******ination is so mundane
<Pickle> b1ff: Hint: She was extraordinarily close to Bush. Bush doesn't like leftists. He DOES like pro-lifers. He obviously ***umed that Republicans would deduce all this and approve Meirs despite the lack of overt info, but he overestimated their intelligence and their loyalty.
<FreeTrade> a term which came from the Bork hearings.
<b1ff> she called abortion protesters synonymous with terrorists
<DeDannan> FT, actually the term predates the hearings...
<b1ff> bush isnt all that conservative
<DeDannan> and refers to the firing of someone for doing the job for which they were hired...
<DeDannan> which is what Bork did..
<Katey> DeDannan, yeah, I've tried to have this discussion before. :)
<DeDannan> to Archibald Cox
<jhicks> Thank God Katey is here to straighten all this out!
<b1ff> WaPo reported it heres the url...
<hans_kung> Pickle, I feel bad for you, wow, right wingers that don't like Meirs...that's funny to me, and shows how unreasonable they are.
<FreeTrade> Maybe they legitimate reasons to oust Bork, but they did not have legitimate reasons to treat him in the way he did it was very demeaning of the US Senate and all the other extremist groups.
<b1ff> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/25/AR2005102502038.html
<Pickle> hans_kung: Why do you feel bad for me?
<jhicks> Katey: you've got a tough job ahead of you I fear.
<b1ff> In an undated speech given in the spring of 1993 to the Executive Women of Dallas, Miers appeared to offer a libertarian view of several topics in which the law and religious beliefs were colliding in court.
<b1ff> "The ongoing debate continues surrounding the attempt to once again criminalize abortions or to once and for all guarantee the freedom of the individual women's [sic] right to decide for herself whether she will have an abortion," Miers said.
<b1ff> Those seeking to resolve such disputes would do well to remember that "we gave up" a long time ago on "legislating religion or morality," she said. And "when science cannot determine the facts and decisions vary based upon religious belief, then government should not act."
<hans_kung> Because you seem more moderate and you got guys in this channel frothing at the mouth about Meirs beign "too liberal."
<FreeTrade> And with Thomas it was as bad, they sent out ads in leftwing journals encouraging people to come up with ANY dirt on thomas they could find..
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