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<JanetB> how hard is it to call the CIA and ask is plame a covert agent
<DiscoTaco> JanetB: give 'em a ring and tell us how it goes. :)
<CryArvach> JanetB...very...the CIA does not exist...
<bud``> I wonder what Libby will REALLY tell when he's on the stand now
<sym`> JanetB: I have been under the understand she was not
<JanetB> Disbelief.. he is the prosecutor...
<DiscoTaco> Besides which, it's pretty obvious by now that Plame is not a covert agent.
<Katey> TheTailor, okay. I expect that you can recite everything that was said then. Right?
<Katey> TheTailor, Let's have it
<L0c0> Estuary: i think that the issue is still unresolved. Was this dissenter a target of the administration due to the information he (wilson) was giving? That information may have contradicted that which the administration used to justify a war.
<CryArvach> so they have to relay the 900 number to some anonymous payphone
<L0c0> but tha'ts just what i think
<JanetB> how hard is it for him to call and say is plame covert
<DiscoTaco> I mean, we're all sitting here talking about her by name and occupation.
<TheTailor> Katey, I'm sure the transcript is on the net.
<JanetB> can anyone answer that
<hans_kung> according to Fitzy, doesn't matter in terms of today's charges if she was covert or not, or information leaked out.
<Estuary> l0c0 - agreed.
<Katey> TheTailor, why would you need that?
<CryArvach> w***up Kingy?
<L0c0> and i'm sur there are plenty of bush supporters in here that'lll throw a label on me for saying so
<Katey> TheTailor, you can remember every word, right?
<TheTailor> Katey, YOU need that, I don't.
<sym`> Apparently in the media, if one *works* for the CIA, then they are a *covert agent*. This goes for the janitors I guess as well who work in the CIA buildings
<sym`> We have janitors with high security clearances
<CryArvach> sym...covert toilet detail
<bmc> well if we want to stick to the facts, its simple, libby facing 3+ felony charges
<TomM--> TheTailor...ok ok....he said it is difficult....and near impossible to investigate allegations if witnesses ly.....or lie....either or.....so leave Kate alone you bully....they give you op status and you become DStewart.....:)
<bmc> prosecutor says probe/investigation not over, just the beginning
<CryArvach> if its libby libby libby on the label label label..
<JanetB> even the prosecutor said plame was NOT covert.. 20 million wasted on a non crime
<Estuary> 20 million?
<CryArvach> TomM--....sock it
<sym`> So if a janitor goes home and tells his friend he empties garbage at the CIA building, and his friend tells another friend, then I guess they are "outing" a covert agent
<bmc> thats not what he was charged with
<Estuary> wtf are you talking about.
<hans_kung> Janet, that's um, wrong.
<IamKing> bmc: quit getting TomM-- excited :P
<L0c0> sym`: where has somebody in the media said that?
<Katey> TheTailor, Nope.
<bmc> hes being charged with perjury
<Estuary> hans_kung - she won't let that stop her!
<JanetB> it should have never gone to a grand jury she was NOT covert
<CryArvach> that scenario does not explain the other ops here
<sym`> L0c0: I had been under the understanding she was not a covert agent
<Katey> I can recall the points he was making, even if I can't recall which specific words he chose to use to make that point.
<bmc> JanetB but it did
<hans_kung> In Fitzy's own words: So let me tell you a little bit about how an investigation works.
<hans_kung> Investigators do not set out to investigate the statute, they set out to gather the facts.
<hans_kung> It's critical that when an investigation is conducted by prosecutors, agents and a grand jury they learn who, what, when, where and why. And then they decide, based upon accurate facts, whether a crime has been committed, who has committed the crime, whether you can prove the crime and whether the crime should be charged.
<JanetB> bmc, yup it did and a waste of money
<L0c0> Big question is what was Libby's intent when he disemenated the information he had
<JanetB> but now that they have charges, we will wait for the trial
<Estuary> JanetB - "covert" is not the issue. "cl***ified" is. her identity as a CIA operative was CL***IFIED. what don't you understand about that ?
<L0c0> the baseball analogy Fitzgerald was very good
<bud``> aparently Fitz enjoys baseball
<hans_kung> That's the way this investigation was conducted. It was known that a CIA officer's identity was blown, it was known that there was a leak. We needed to figure out how that happened, who did it, why, whether a crime was committed, whether we could prove it, whether we should prove it.
<hans_kung> And given that national security was at stake, it was especially important that we find out accurate facts.
<sym`> I mean I don't see what the big deal is if she wasn't even "covert" status
<CryArvach> you think IamKing would be trusted with a real one? He would hock it
<Katey> Estuary, yes, Fitzgerald said that as well.
<TomM--> the fact is...Fitzgerald never once said the word "covert" he used the term National Security, he used the term CIA officer, he never once said covert....
<DiscoTaco> L0c0: that's not even as big a question as whether or not Plame was a covert agent when she was outed.
<TheTailor> Katey, I don't remember him making the point that lies made it impossible, difficult maybe.
<JanetB> Estuary.. hogwash!! for 2 years you have been in here yelling COVERT agent you outted a covert agent
<DeDannan> "In July 2003, Valerie Wilson's identity as a CIA officer was cl***ified" Patrick Fitzgerald, 10/28/2005....
<sym`> I don't believe her career was ruined, nor was her life in danger
<JanetB> NOW that is not the issue?? hahah
<Katey> TheTailor, ok. I don't recall his being so tepid about it.
<CryArvach> JanetB is a covert agent....a convincing front too..she sells flowers
<sym`> JanetB: Estuary yells a lot of things
<DiscoTaco> Cl***ified does not mean covert.
<sym`> You need a special decoder ring
<JanetB> heheh CryArvach
<bud``> If Rove's involved, im pretty sure that threatening libby with 30 years will bring out the truth
<CryArvach> symbio..those are in the bouquets she 'sells'
<TheTailor> Katey, his point was the charges have to be made in the interest of justice
<Estuary> katey - indeed. the man is so coherent and clearly spoken that i think what he has to say will get a lot of people interested, even those not prone to following washington scandals. What he said about the war was brilliant.
<TomM--> TheTailor you been hanging around DS too long....parse parse parse....doesnt equate truth. :)
<Katey> TheTailor, yes. I know
<TheTailor> People can't be allowed to lie
<Katey> TheTailor, and why can't they be allowed to lie?
<JanetB> if cl***ified is all it take why isn't clinton in jail for giving china cl***ified information heheh
<bmc> executive privilege?
<CryArvach> TomM-- maybe you need to hang around DStewart longer...
<Katey> I believe the expression he used was that "truth is the engine that drives justice" or something along those lines
<JanetB> heh no one is above the law
<sym`> JanetB: Because Clinton is an angel capable of no wrong
<CryArvach> maybe some common sense will sink in
<TheTailor> Katey, well not because it makes investigation "impossible"
<DeDannan> "Its important for a CIA officers identity to be protected..no just for their benefit, but for the benefit of the nation's security" Patrick Fitzgerald 10/28/2005
<Katey> It's a pretty simple concept
<L0c0> DiscoTaco: personally, I don't think Libby or anybody else realized what her status was initially when her name/identity were being p***ed around
<sym`> JanetB: Anything which effects Clinton negatively was not his fault, as he was just a mear pawn
<TomM--> CryArvach although I am reticent to ask...just what common sense are you speaking of?
<CryArvach> JanetB's op name is Pink Tulip
<JanetB> it is not
<Estuary> l0c0 - i think there's a good chance of that.
<JanetB> it is lavander!!
<sym`> Clinton never personally did anything *bad*! Not on purpose!
<L0c0> DiscoTaco: i think the intent was to try to smear Wilson and discredit his dissent
<CryArvach> what DStewart usually speaks TomM--...
<L0c0> i think the status of whether she was covert or not was something they overlooked
<CryArvach> sym is practicing Spin Control
<CryArvach> TomM-- has John Kerry boxer shorts
<sym`> JanetB: But that evil, vile, disgusting Bush with his Yes man war mongering cabnet, and his love for wealthy rich contributers .. o0o0o0o0o! He's so EVIL!
<L0c0> DJ_SIM`...spins like no other
<L0c0> er SYM
<DiscoTaco> L0c0: I think the intent was to expose an administration-smearing liar. In a Democratic administration the person who outed the Plame/Wilson cronyism set-up would be hailed as a whistleblower.
<CryArvach> sym...no mention of how wealthy Kerry is
<Estuary> In a way, i'm empathetic (not sympathetic) to Libby, because i highly doubt the buck stops with him. I sincerely doubt he was doing this out of his own impetus, behind cheney's back.
<JanetB> well, the dems lost big time today.. they did not get rove, who they want so bad they can taste it
<CryArvach> I forgot..Kerry is for the little people
<JanetB> poor things
<sym`> CryArvach: Why? Kerry is a democrat he's poor as poop
<TheTailor> Estuary, doing what?
<L0c0> Discotaco: was he lying though? He said there was no uranium, no uranium deal. Has it been proven that there was?
<sym`> Didn't ya know, there isnt a "wealthy" democrat among us!
<Estuary> TheTailor - leaking the identity, then covering it up.
<CryArvach> he has more money at disposal than most other pols have
<lgcbmb> Kerry blew all his money on botox
<TheTailor> Estuary, Libby isn't being charged with that.
<DeDannan> heh..the Vice President's chief of staff gets indicted on 5 counts..but the dems lost bigtime...gotta love that
<rond> kerry and kennedy made comments today on the indictments, kennedy thinks this is the worst thing since watergate
<DiscoTaco> L0c0: First he said there was in his report to the CIA. Then when he turned into a camera ***** he said there was. And the issue was not whether there was a uranium deal but an attempt to secure one.
<L0c0> he said the british papers, which were one of the justifications in the lead up to the war, were forged/incorrect
<TomM--> CryArvach oh ok...whatever that means....all I have said today is that Libby was indicted. His is accused of being a liar and an obstructer. I also suggested we wait until he either pleads or goes to trial. Clinton didnt do it, the vast left wing conspiracy didnt do it. I dont see where the spin is there...:)
<rond> he skipped over his PAL clinton
<Ashok> Dems took it up the butt again
<DiscoTaco> er, said there wasn't, second time around.
<Ashok> They wanted Rove hehe, not gonna happen
<CryArvach> some ****ER today donated a whole Danduk of clothes....**** stained, raoch-infested, moldy, and worse..
<L0c0> DiscoTaco: that's not what the President told the American people
<DiscoTaco> No, he did not say the British papers were forged/incorrect. The forgeries came out *after* he submitted his report to the CIA.
<lgcbmb> Rove is so close to going down i can taste it!
<CryArvach> I wound up pitchfoking all of thm into the compactor
<DiscoTaco> L0c0: yes, that is what the President told the American people.
<L0c0> you can taste rove ?
<sym`> CryArvach: We don't need to worry about your wardrobe
<DeDannan> Ashok, ask Scooter how bad the dems took it up the butt :)
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