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<mommer> I suppose the purpose of the exercise was restricting people, not empowering them.
<Jabberwockey> Mmmh. Dunno.
<Jabberwockey> I think it may have more to do with not being able to think outside the box.
<Jabberwockey> "C doesn't do it, so we shouldn't do it either"
<mommer> what language are you parsing?
<ayrnieu> Jabberwockey - oh, they can think outside of the box: they just think that they have to with great effort rebuild the box everytime they do so.
<Jabberwockey> Do you know the story of why the track width is as wide as it is?
<Jabberwockey> mommer: NASL
<pjb> Yes, the same why the shuttle boosters are the size they are.
<Jabberwockey> pjb: Yepp.
<cliini> Which track width? :)
<Jabberwockey> cliini: Railway tracks.
<cliini> I knew you meant that, but which of the five different railway track widths?
<pjb> There are bigger and smaller horses...
<Jabberwockey> cliini: The one used in the US and most European countries (except Spain, for instance)
<housel> http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm
<cliini> I also guess the story you wanted to tell, but I think the true story would be cooler, except possibly rather long.
<mommer> Jabberwockey: oh I see. Well, i was thinking more about pascal. But perhaps they didn't make it powerful because they really didn't much about this.
<Jabberwockey> pjb: No, Franco deliberately changed the track width to avoid being invaded by train.
<Jabberwockey> mommer: Oh, Wirth didn't like a language to be powerful.
<pjb> They just had different horses in Spain.
<cliini> I've always been told that the width Russia uses, which is also used in Finland because of that, was imported from US.
<Jabberwockey> pjb: No, that is really the answer.
<cliini> And because of this, I've always thought that US has at least had several differing standards.
<Jabberwockey> pjb: They used to have the same track width and they changed it.
<Jabberwockey> cliini: Nope.
<pjb> Perhaps, but it's a little wicked to always accuse dead dictators for everything.
<Jabberwockey> pjb: Not if that's really what happened :)
<pjb> ;-)
<cliini> It says in this free encyclopedia: "Originally a variety of gauges was used in the United States and Canada."
<cliini> This is referring to stone age, of course, I grant you that.
<Jabberwockey> cliini: Yes. The thing is that the system used today in the US is the English system.
<cliini> But apparently the Russian gauge is a Russian invention, they just imported an American to invent it...
<cliini> (According to the same page.)
<Jabberwockey> cliini: And the English system has its track width from the tram track widths, because the first people to build railway tracks in England were tram builders.
<cliini> (Also to prohibit invaders using their tracks.)
<Jabberwockey> cliini: These tram builders used the tools of the cart builders, as they used their tools.
<Jabberwockey> cliini: And the cart builders had to use that wheel width so that they don't get destroyed because of the deep furrows in some English country roads.
<cliini> Maybe Finland could apply for an EU grant to rebuild the tracks in standard gauge.
<Jabberwockey> cliini: And these deep furrows had that width because it was the standard in Roman times. Because that's the width of arses of two horses.
<cliini> This would be a marvelous way to get funding for actually fixing the tracks. :-)
<pjb> of two roman horses.
<Jabberwockey> Yepp.
<cliini> Did this have something to do with Lisp? :-)
<Jabberwockey> cliini: No, but it has a lot to do with inherited standards. And it has a ****ing lot to do with why people don't use Lisp.
<Jabberwockey> cliini: As we say in Germany: "1. We don't do it like that 2. We never did it like that 3. Where would we end up doing that?!?"
<pjb> Lisp has a lot of inherited standards too.
<Jabberwockey> Yepp, I know.
<Jabberwockey> As with all inherited standards, some are good, others should be gotten rid of.
<Jabberwockey> "You've got to PIMP MY CODE!"
<Jabberwockey> Damn, I have a totally new idea for an MTV show!
<beach> good morning
<brianr_> I have a question. I have a loop that iterates across an x window and draws squares--I'm making a cellular automata program (think Wolfram). When I run (trace draw-squares) it works, when I (untrace draw-squares) it stops working...
<brianr_> have i given enough info for anyone to take a guess at what this might be?
<brianr_> s/this/problem this/
<brianr_> hehe, s/problem this/this problem/
<pjb> brianr_: the most probable is that it works in both cases. Only you don't see it because you never flush.
<brianr_> no, I have (xlib:display-force-output *dpy*) at the end of the loop (outside the loop)
<pjb> And do you set the right colors?
<brianr_> yep
<pjb> You may lisppaste it.
<brianr_> i'll paste it
<lisppaste> brianr_ pasted "draw function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/13018
<brianr_> it's pretty ugly
<brianr_> i suppose i should have included draw-rectangle...
<lisppaste> brianr_ annotated #13018 with "draw-rectangle" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/13018#1
<pjb> Even with trace draw-rectangle it doesn't work here...
<brianr_> *shrug*
<pjb> Well, it works, but it draws all cells as white.
<brianr_> I don't know the first thing about xlib, this is my first ever attempt at using it
<pjb> (progn (set-color 0) (draw-rectangle 0 0 100 100) (draw))
<pjb> (loop :for i below (array-dimension *cells* 0) :do
<pjb> (loop :for j below (array-dimension *cells* 1) :do
<pjb> (setf (aref *cells* i j) (random 2)))) (draw) ; gives better results.
<pjb> The problem may be with your definition of white and black. It really depends on the kind of display you have.
<pjb> Try: (let ((black (xlib:screen-black-pixel screen))
<pjb> (white (xlib:screen-white-pixel screen))) ...)
<pjb>
<brianr_> yeah, that's a hack, becuase (xlib:make-color :red r :green g :blue b) did not return an (unsigned-byte 32), hence the hard coded number
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