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<Bebabo> actually you can get all rules from the Z2 field
<Quiznos> what's a z2 field?
<Bebabo> odd+odd=even+even=even, odd*odd=odd, even*even=even etc.
<Quiznos> ok
<Quiznos> thanks much.
<Bebabo> z2 is 'one' field, the field (like rationals, reals, complex) of {0,1}
<Bebabo> which is Z mod 2
<mwc> I'd like to to hear my proof and see if it sounds solid. Let us consider the quotient group G/Z formed by a group G and it's center Z. We need to prove the group is Abelian. ***ume the order of the quotient group is greater than 2, for if it's one, Z = G and G is abelian. THis means taht a generator of the group G/Z exists, gZ for some g in G. Since the order is n > 1, we have g^(n-1) != g^1. Howevre, inverses are in the
<mwc> same equivalence cl*** as defined by the subgroup Z under the relation a == x iff ax^-1 are in H
<mwc> therefore, they generate the same subgroup and the order of the group cannot be greater than one, which is a contradiction
<zero0> is there a program that can give a result of 2^329847293184798327432194073218473210984732109437493287432094873214983217483214832384732?
<zero0> Mathematica gave me overflow problem
<Bebabo> that would be about 2.3 * 10^86 digits
<zero0> yep
<zero0> is there a program that would allow me to do it?
<zero0> i need infinite precision for what I'm doing now :(
<Bebabo> you see thatz more digits than there are atoms in the universe
<zero0> mathematica doesn't seem to cut it
<Bebabo> you must have that modulo something ?
<zero0> i'm trying to find the number of particles in the universe
<zero0> at the current time
<Bebabo> that's about that number
<zero0> yah i think so
<zero0> i have to verify it though
<zero0> i think i need to write the program myself
<zero0> because it'll take up more than 1TB of data
<Bebabo> as i said that's more digits than atoms
<zero0> hehe
<de1337> zero0: would be better if you went out taking some fresh air and starting to count them yourself
<sloof3> zero0: funny you should ask that
<sloof3> I have such a C3 program
<Bebabo> even if you could write the digits on single atoms you'll not have enough atoms in the universe
<sloof3> c#*
<zero0> sloof3, can I see?
<sloof3> zero0: not finished
<jhenn> Oh TI-86 anyone know how to turun a decimal number into a fraction?
<zero0> sloof3, how efficient is it?
<sloshytiger> the answer is 42
<zero0> sloof3, if ur program could give me the result to what I just posted, i pay you $200 for ur finished program
<sloof3> zero0: ...I'm going to say not very..but it will work on integers of infinite size. ***uming you have the memory for it
<zero0> yah I'll buy more memory if necessary
<zero0> i have about $10K allocated fund for this project
<sloof3> zero0: do you need the program to just that calculation?
<zero0> nope
<zero0> i need the program to do a general solution
<zero0> but i must first p*** that barrier
<sloof3> or 2^x for very large x
<sloshytiger> i once wrote a program to calculate the number of particles in the universe. unfortunately, it was in pdp-11 ***embly, so it's probably useless now
<sloshytiger> unless you have a pdp-11 lying around
<mwc> I just don't know how to show a contradiction for n = 2, in which the element that generates the quotient group is self inverse. any ideas?
<zero0> yep, 2^x for very large x
<zero0> what is a pdp-11?
<sloof3> zero0: I'll finish my program up then
<sloof3> zero0: very old machine
<zero0> ohs
<zero0> let me give u an idea of my equation
<sloof3> zero0: /msg it to me
<sloshytiger> yeah, unfortunately the number of particles in the universe has changed since i wrote the program
<sloof3> sloshytiger: how do calculate such a number?
<zero0> hehe
<zero0> true true
<zero0> based on the m*** of the universe and its time
<zero0> you can calculate its total energy
<zero0> E = mc^2
<sloshytiger> well you see it is as simple as programming a robot to go around the universe and count each and every particle
<zero0> by knowing the m*** ratio of particular particles
<zero0> u can calculate number of each particle :)
<zero0> it's a huge number :)
<zero0> Precision[%]
<zero0> in Mathematica gave infinite
<zero0> Liar!
<sloshytiger> @math ?Precision
<mbot> sloshytiger: Null
<zero0> can mbot do 2^23897421974321094732109487321094321749832174983274932? :)
<sloshytiger> @mbot N[ 2^23897421974321094732109487321094321749832174983274932 ]
<mbot> sloshytiger: Overflow[]
<sloshytiger> no
<sloshytiger> but how did you come up with that number?
<sloshytiger> (mbot is just mathematica, by the way)
<zero0> ohs :)
<zero0> it's just an arbitrary big number :)
<sloshytiger> oh
<zero0> i have many different particles I want to calculate
<zero0> my research project is to calculate the number of electrons in the universe
<zero0> number of protons in the universe
<zero0> etc. etc.
<sloshytiger> what is this research for?
<zero0> do that every 3 months for the next 10 years
<zero0> it's a cosmological research project
<sloshytiger> for what
<zero0> we want to find if the m*** of the universe changes over time
<sloshytiger> who are "we"
<de1337> sounds like a ****ty projekt, if you actually have to type out the whole number
<zero0> and how much of each particle changes, etc.
<zero0> me and a few physicists
<zero0> i get to do the grunt work :(
<zero0> they get to do the formula and stuff like that
<zero0> part of superstring theory
<zero0> we as in UC Berkeley
<zero0> does that answer ur question sloshytiger?
<Arafangion> I have a linear transformation given by T(p) = [p(1) p(2) p(3) p(4)], how do I interpret this?
<zero0> kaka
<zero0> i found my program
<zero0> pari!
<zero0> pari kicks mathematica butt all around!
<astrolabe_> Arafangion: Maybe the p(i) are column vectors, in which case they are probably the images under the linear transformation of the ith standard basis vector.
<Arafangion> astrolabe_: The basis are [1, x, x^2, x^3], if that helps?
<zero0> damn
<zero0> I need a better computer :)
<zero0> i'm running out of memory
<zero0> :(
<Arafangion> Same.
<astrolabe_> Arafangion: Do you know anything about the p(i)?
<astrolabe_> Or the source and target of the linear transformation?
<zero0> kaka
<Arafangion> Arafangion: Aside from teh basis, no.
<zero0> i find this very interesting 0^0 = 1
<Arafangion> astrolabe_: I have the source and target basis.
<ods15> zero0: it's not at all surprising
<zero0> is there a proof for this?
<ods15> and it's not exactly true either
<Arafangion> astrolabe_: source is in functions, the target is elementary.
<ods15> zero0: take the log
<ods15> 0*log(0) is very obviously 0
<ods15> and when brought to power, it's 1
<ods15> but again, it's nonsense
<astrolabe_> Arafangion: Hangon, p is a polynomial I guess.
<ods15> you can't just play with infinity/zero like that, you have to lim
<zero0> there's sense to this
<ods15> when you lim, you reach what i said
<zero0> cuz I'm building out the timeline for mathematics
<zero0> the beginning of math starts with zero
<ods15> @math 0^0
<mbot> ods15: 1
<Arafangion> astrolabe_: I think it is, I just wish I could figure out how to interpret it so that I could make a matrix out of the transformation :(
<ods15> lol, it shouldn't do that :)
<zero0> then operations like addition, substraction, multiplication, and division were created
<ods15> zero0: no it doesn't... it was a looooooooong time until zero was invented, haven't you noticed, it's one of the key things missing in roman numerals..
<zero0> then exponent is created
<ods15> zero was invented by the arabics...
<astrolabe_> If it is, then the second column of the matrix is 1,2,4,8.
<zero0> i meant in nature's term
<zero0> then number is created
<ods15> i think even before increasion was "intuitively" invented
<ods15> (i.e., counting things)
<zero0> that's why 0^0 is 1
<saba> CAREFUL
<Arafangion> astrolabe_: That's suspiciously easy!
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