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<mobius-helix> to rolout site
<ijchain> <Cameron> "cool" in the sense that many others are buzzing about it, or useful-effective-... (or both)?
<ijchain> <schlenk> maybe ask the openacs conference speaker, wasn't there an openacs talk scheduled?
<davidw> 'lo
<ijchain> <schelte> Hi Steve, David.
<azbridge> *** ilianum entered
<ijchain> <dkf> schlenk: Yes, but that's been postponed until Friday
<ijchain> <dkf> the speaker got delayed :/
<ijchain> <schlenk> ok...
<ijchain> <stever> must have been drinking Hand Grenades with Jeff
<ijchain> <dkf> Heh
<ijchain> <kbk> The, uhm, challenging response to dkf's OO ideas is actually very, very encouraging. When people say, "very nice," they've tuned you out. When they start swearing at you, you've engaged them, p***ionately, and Things start to Happen.
<ijchain> <dkf> Jeff mentioned them in the state-of-tcl talk, but at least claimed to not know about much after that... ;)
<ijchain> <stever> I remember it all, I stuck with beef and coffee :)
<ijchain> <dkf> There were a few people saying "why haven't you implemented it all yet?" :)
<ijchain> <stever> dkf: and your excuse (response) was ?
<ijchain> <dkf> "been run over by a work train"
<ijchain> <stever> thats a good formula to follow
<ijchain> <dkf> FWIW, Mai Tai's are also fairly lethal
<davidw> sweet cocktails are bad news indeed
<ijchain> <dkf> "How much rum did you put in that?"
<ijchain> <stever> thats right before you become a human gyroscope
<ijchain> <dkf> OTOH, an unsweetened Daiquiri is very nice after a hot day
<azbridge> *** ilianum left
<ijchain> <dkf> Honey liqueur? Oooh....
<ijchain> <kbk> The Lithuanian friend claims that krupnikas and sliwowicz "whupped the German Army" in several wars.
<ijchain> <dkf> Isn't he a hockey player?
<davidw> apparently there is a hockey player called 'Hecl'
<ijchain> <dkf> Oh, plum brandy
<ijchain> <miguel> very good stuff, when it's good
<diazepam> hey, how can i get the os info?
<ijchain> <miguel> if you like fruit brandy, get hold of some good Williamine
<ijchain> <kbk> The Slovaks informed me that 'l', 'r', and 'rz' *are* vowels. :/
<davidw> diazepam, tcl_platform
<diazepam> ty davidw
<davidw> it's in the tclvars man page
<davidw> grappa is basically rocket fuel
<ijchain> <miguel> davidw: you risk deportation ;)
<ijchain> <dkf> "[MS Visual Studio is] like a great big book of usefull spells, but they are written in invisble ink" http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166470&cid=13884788
<ijchain> <stever> thats sums up MS documentation too
<ijchain> <stever> or un-documentation
<davidw> kbk: what kind of wine do they make up there anyway?
<ijchain> <schlenk> are they not trying to activly hide the info?
<ijchain> <kbk> davidw: The soil and climate are well-suited to varietals similar to what's grown in the Rhineland. Or Eiswein. The growing season is really too short for making good reds. Konstantin Franck makes a wonderful Johannisberg Riesling.
<davidw> aah, yeah, I was thinking it would have to be cold-weather oriented stuff
<ijchain> <kbk> davidw: Most of the *good* stuff doesn't make it very far from upstate New York, though. The Finger Lakes wines sold elsewhere are, for the most part, sheepdip.
<davidw> http://www.markroseman.com/blog/
<davidw> he mentions the conference... looks pretty good, about 75 people, he says
<ijchain> <Cameron> So you're praising Amazon's automations?
<ijchain> <kbk> I do *not* like the local grape varieties (Catawba, Cayuga, Niagara, ...) They all have an unpleasant odor to them. At least to my nose.
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> kbk, oregon local?
<ijchain> <kbk> Colin: New York.
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> Grapes grow in NY? Ok.
<davidw> Oregon is beginning to have some good wines too, apparently
<ijchain> <Cameron> Oh, SnobColin; you make such an easy target. Heck, *Canada* has grapes, even for wine.
<ijchain> <kbk> I recall having once read that the two crops most widely dispersed throughout the world are grapes and hemp. Seems every culture grows them.
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> Cameron, IIRC, Louis Quatorze grew oranges in versailles, too.
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> Apparently they had to be carried into and out of greenhouses for winter.
<ijchain> <kbk> I recall sampling some very nice Canadian wines the year that the Tcl conference was in Toronto. The Royal York has an impressive cellar.
<davidw> you've been reading The Confusion?
<ijchain> <kbk> The Confusion ?
<davidw> a Neil Stephenson book
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> davidw, and loving it. But I knew about orangeries before that.
<ijchain> <Cameron> I think of the Brits as doing nutty things for citrus, and botanicals more generally. The Louis just liked the ostentation. Across the Channel they have *p***ion* for their oddities.
<davidw> I think it's one of the best books I've read in a long time
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> The whole series is *excellent* David.
<davidw> yeah
<ijchain> <kbk> Cameron - Well, of course the Limeys have a thing about citrus...
<davidw> I wonder if he'll do a future series too
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> They're the moby **** of our age, IMHO.
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> I guess it's not unreasonable for NY to grow grapes ... after all they're at a similar latitude to some of the french and german vineyards, I guess.
<ijchain> <miguel> gulf stream says that Rev's statement, while true, is misleading
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> And isn't there one really sticky spaetleser which requires the grapes be frozen?
<ijchain> <kbk> RevColin - Yes, Eiswein.
<ijchain> <miguel> at the same latitude, europe is way warmer than the us
<ijchain> <ReverendColin> miguel, whence my surprise.
<davidw> NY isn't all that far north, actually
<davidw> I'm further north here in Padova, Italy than most of NY, if I reckon correctly
<ijchain> <dkf> There's vinyards in Cheshire, UK, and that *is* a long way north...
<davidw> do they do anything but make vinegar with their produce?:->
<davidw> miguel: how does that work out in the souther hemisphere... which is warmer, argentina or chile?
<ijchain> <RevColin> I bet Cheshire wines get boots really clean.
<ijchain> <dkf> No idea; not tried any of them
<ijchain> <miguel> not too different. The Pacific is way colder, than the Atlantic. But the main difference seems to be made by the Andes, not the oceans
<ijchain> <dkf> The Humboldt Current is the cause of the temperature difference
<ijchain> <kbk> We got our first sleet of the season a couple of nights ago, thanks to Wilma. (Although that sort of weather in October isn't too unusual)
<ijchain> <miguel> Santiago and Mendoza (our side of the Andes, just accross from Santiago to a first approx) have similar climates wrt temp. The Chilean side gets all the rain though, our side is arid and dependent on irrigation
<davidw> ah
<ijchain> <kbk> Yes, mountains, even low ones, make a big difference. Albany and Buffalo are almost exactly the same latitude, only a few hours' drive apart, but Buffalo gets 3x the snow that Albany does.
<ijchain> <miguel> great wines both sides of the mountains
<ijchain> <Cameron> And both countries are big, and varied.
<ijchain> <RevColin> kbk, buffalo's on the windward or leeward side of the mountains? Adirondacks or something?
<ijchain> <kbk> Buffalo is on the windward side - and it's the Alleganies and Helderbergs - the Adirondacks are farther north. The big effect is that Buffalo is alee of Lake Erie, and gets tremendous amounts of lake-effect snow until the lake freezes over.
<ijchain> <torsten> ups
<ijchain> <miguel> hips?
<ijchain> <kbk> torsten - Yes, a UPS is a very good idea in an area where ice-storms bring down power lines with distressing regularity.
<ijchain> <LucMove> good afternoons everyone
<ijchain> <miguel> kbk: sure is, get your wine delivered by UPS - or FedEx, whatever
<ijchain> <LucMove> anything good going on in Portland?
<davidw> lucmove: rain, presumably
<ijchain> <LucMove> rain is good for the plants. How long till the next talk now?
<ijchain> <rmax> LucMove: it's getting quite cold during the nights now.
<ijchain> <rmax> LucMove: two hours
<ijchain> <LucMove> yay. plenty for lunch :-)
<davidw> most of these web log programs are piles of crap
<davidw> I feel the NIH stirring
<ijchain> <dkf> National Institutes of Health?
<davidw> Not Invented Here
<ijchain> <LucMove> davidw is a knight that says "NIH"
<ijchain> <dkf> That's drh
<ijchain> <RevColin> We invented NIH!
<davidw> dkf: what's he got to do with it?
<ijchain> <dkf> NIH?
<ijchain> <dkf> I made the comment because he's done his own SQL database and he's doing his own new revision control software
<ijchain> <stever> dkf: how far has he got on the rcs?
<davidw> heh.... the sql database fills a niche.... a new revision control system....makes me roll my eyes;-)
<davidw> they're sprouting like mushrooms
<ijchain> <stever> and they all ****
<ijchain> <dkf> he likes his timelines
<ijchain> <LucMove> but if it's as good as sqlite...
<ijchain> <stever> yeah, designed with the same mindset
<ijchain> <suchenwi> In fact, a RCS would be an application for a (SQL, or whatever) database.
<rkeene> I like Subversion :-)
<ijchain> <LucMove> hi, Richard
<ijchain> <Zarutian> suchenwi: wouldnt a changelog suffice?
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