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<ijchain> <Zarutian> suchenwi: wouldnt a changelog suffice?
<ijchain> <suchenwi> Hi Luc
<ijchain> <suchenwi> As far as I understand RCS's, for each controlled file you store one version in full (the latest), and diffs with all other versions.
<davidw> rcs's just aren't something you should fiddle with a lot
<davidw> a decent one that works ok and is *solid* is the goal... I dont think there are too many niches
<ijchain> <suchenwi> Well, I work from and into CVS...
<ijchain> <Zarutian> Subversion, I think, stores changesets, aka which files have been changed and how, if they were renamed and so on
<davidw> yeah, CVS is ancient and it still does the job ok
<ijchain> <dkf> I think it is hard to build something so much better than CVS in general that it negates the pain of migration
<ijchain> <RevColin> svn seems to be gaining support.
<rkeene> There are a few niches, like people who want VMS back. :-P
<davidw> the ASF switched to svn
<davidw> so far so good
<ijchain> <RevColin> ASF?
<davidw> it's similar to CVS, and there was an automatic migration tool
<davidw> Apache Software Foundation
<davidw> all in all it wasn't that hard
<ijchain> <RevColin> That's high profile support.
<ijchain> <miguel> if only the ASF had an sf automatic migration tool
<rkeene> We switched some of our internal projects from CVS to Subversion with no problems.
<ijchain> <RevColin> I think that the linux kernel group is going to just pick a team of people who know version control and go with them, regardless of the quality of their tech.
<davidw> miguel: for what, the bugs?
<ijchain> <miguel> I think the bugs is the toughest part to get out of sf, yes. On the basis of hearsay ...
<davidw> if people were interested in moving to the ASF, that shouldn't be a blocker, afaik...
<davidw> I mean, it's not like you would have to migrate everything immediately
<ijchain> <LucMove> anyone here uses NetBSD frequently?
<azbridge> <Csan> hi all. Under OSF1, tcl 8.4 I get the following error, only when running the Expect script from cron:
<azbridge> <Csan> error setting blocking mode: no such device
<azbridge> <Csan> while executing
<azbridge> <Csan> "fconfigure stdin -blocking 0 -buffering none -translation binary"
<ijchain> <suchenwi> cron does indeed not provide stdin/out/err, iirc
<azbridge> <Csan> how can I let cron have stdin
<ijchain> <suchenwi> I think the first three files you open will get numbers 0 (stdin), 1(stdout), 2 (stderr).
<azbridge> <Csan> IIRC we discussed this issue on this chat and we might have had a conclusion... anzone remembers it? Where's the chat history?
<ijchain> <dkf> easiest technique is a wrapper shell script
<ijchain> <dkf> which does
<azbridge> <Csan> would adding "</dev/null" to the end of the cron line be enough?
<ijchain> <dkf> exec tclsh thescript.tcl arguments... </dev/null
<ijchain> <suchenwi> A binary non-blocking unbuffered null device? :p
<ijchain> <dkf> It's also a really good idea to design the code you're running to print nothing at all unless there's an error or some other kind of unusual situation
<azbridge> <Csan> I am appending to a log file
<ijchain> <dkf> logging is good :)
<azbridge> <Csan> is having expect as the interpreter (#!) equivalent of having tclsh as the interpreter but loading Expect as a package? - should be I guess
<ijchain> <dkf> I believe so
<azbridge> <Csan> mmkay, how can I check for availability of "stdin" before I [fconfigure] - besides using [catch] in 8.4?
<ijchain> <dkf> [file channels]?
<azbridge> <Csan> interestingly, [fileevent] does not return an error but [fconfigure] right after it
<ijchain> <dkf> Hmm no, [file channels] doesn't work
<ijchain> <dkf> :(
<ijchain> <fyw> i am from china.
<ijchain> <Cameron> drh's CVSTrac has been in industrial-strength use for at least five years.
<azbridge> <Csan> hi fym, how are you?
<ijchain> <fyw> fine,my name is fyw
<azbridge> <Csan> Don I'll be using [catch] then - but could this behavior be considered a bug (resulting in letting unaware people write non-portable code)?
<davidw> fyw: what do you use tcl and tk for?
<ijchain> <dkf> Csan: Yes :(
<ijchain> <fyw> yes, i use TCL for autolmatization testing
<ijchain> <dkf> fyw: Good use
<azbridge> <Csan> fconfigure(3tcl) says: "(...)Tcl standard channel (stdin, stdout, or stderr)(...)" - so Tcl itself is "unaware" of this "problem"? Maybe at least a note in the man page would help a lot...
<ijchain> <dkf> Oooh! I see sunshine in Portland!
<ijchain> <dkf> That's one for the almanac!
<ijchain> <rmax> It's waaay to cold over here :(
<ijchain> <rmax> .. at least during the night, and given the thin windows.
<ijchain> <fyw> thank you
<ijchain> <torsten> oh, that's why sun just went away here ...
<ijchain> <rmax> I am prepares, but my hotel room and bed seem not.
<ijchain> <rmax> s/s/d/
<ijchain> <dkf> Try turning the heating on :D
<ijchain> <rmax> There is only that little electrical heater in my room, which makes too much noise to run it over the night.
<ijchain> <rmax> The normal heating doesn't seem to work.
<ijchain> <dkf> maybe I just don't feel the cold quite so much?
<ijchain> <fyw> suchenwi is chinese??
<ijchain> <LucMove> suchenwi is multilingual
<ijchain> <rmax> dkf: I normally also don't feel cold so easily.
<ijchain> <fyw> o i see
<ijchain> <dkf> OK, the other way of handling it is to wear socks and a sweater in bed
<ijchain> <dkf> I've done that in the past :/
<ijchain> <miguel> now, what did he say?
<ijchain> <dkf> (Don't need to this time though)
<ijchain> <suchenwi> I typed the Chinese from my Tcl/Tk sandbox, and pasted them into Tkchat, which is also in Tcl/Tk.
<ijchain> <suchenwi> "Tcl can also process Chinese. suchenwi is German, but can write a Chinese character or two"
<ijchain> <stever> dkf: perhaps you could ask drh if he would speak for 5 minutes about his rcs?
<ijchain> <LucMove> I didn't see the Chinese characters. I just saw Woodstock speak
<ijchain> <suchenwi> What platform/chat client? If you don't have a font providing Chinese, Tk can't help it.
<ijchain> <fyw> let us chat in chinese,ok?? hahahahaha
<ijchain> <kbk> We are the Knights who say Ni (Hao)!
<ijchain> <suchenwi> lol
<ijchain> <suchenwi> `}
<ijchain> <suchenwi> I think most users here are most proficient in English, so that is our usual language.
<ijchain> <stever> suchenwi: since youre so multi-lingual, we can nickname you r27s for short :)
<ijchain> <suchenwi> :p
<ijchain> <fyw> o i konw that city
<ijchain> <kbk> Someone let us know when the audio is up?
<ijchain> <miguel> do we have an updated program for today?
<ijchain> <snichols> Hello
<ijchain> <snichols> Would you agree with this comment? XML files make a poor database becaus eXML documents are not easily searchable and its difficult to manage relationships with other documents
<ijchain> <suchenwi>
<ijchain> <suchenwi> davidw: that's the Chinese electronics company, though...
<ijchain> <Cameron> There are all kinds of databases. XML is bad for some, and ... acceptable for others.
<davidw> suchenwi: yeah, I know
<ijchain> <suchenwi> f
<ijchain> <snichols> Isn't XML best for exchanging data between two seperate applications? Basically its best as a way for two applications to commuicate.
<ijchain> <LucMove> yes, but just as good as a tarball. no good for looking up the data
<ijchain> <suchenwi> XML is rather wasteful for storing information, true. When zipped, you typically get it down to 10% the size.
<gongoputch> conference still going on today?
<davidw> yeah, I think so
<ijchain> <RevColin> What is 'moop' in Chinese?
<ijchain> <snichols> whats that programming term people use for storing data: persist. It sounds cool, but doesn't that just mean data isn't lossed when the computer is rebooted, looses power, etc.
<ijchain> <suchenwi> moop could be (4
<ijchain> <RevColin> Wow! Thanks Richard!
<ijchain> <suchenwi> Welcome :)
<ijchain> <RevColin> Does it mean anything?
<ijchain> <fyw> what is mean
<ijchain> <suchenwi> ( is wood, 4 I don't know currently - but English "moop" doesn't really mean anything either
<davidw> suchenwi: it's a misprint of 'moor'
<davidw> moors! moops! moors!
<ijchain> <RevColin> It doesn't, which is why I was amazed you could translate it.
<ijchain> <suchenwi> Well, phonetically - "mupu"
<ijchain> <RevColin> Probably means wood-rot or something.
<davidw> so if you could modify the chinese character for moor just a bit to make it something else that sounds funny but doesn't exist... or something like that
<ijchain> <RevColin> It's like Vonnegut's hi-ho in Slapstick.
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