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<J4k3> hey man, get you an airplane from this place:
<J4k3> http://doorstop.org/KLNA/
<J4k3> that directory damn near brought me to tears
<dtm> hmmmm
<dtm> J4k3: is that florida or what
<bucky> SteveWrightNZ, that's a nice boat.. the yamaha 9.9 4 stroke used outboard alone is worth about $2000 USD or a little more, if it's a mercruiser alpha drive it's prolly a good deal, when it says 280 i ***ume it is a merc
<J4k3> ever propelled a canue with a gas weedwacker with a bent metal blade attached?
<wheee> not me but dont people do that all the time in the east?
<dtm> :-.
<bucky> that's an awsome idea actually
<dtm> that could work?
<curious> offtopic : http://zjeby.dyndns.org:8243/medical/teeth.txt
<SteveWrightNZ> bucky: yeah, its quite solid
<bucky> it's an older boat but it's been mantained
<SteveWrightNZ> ooh its big tho
<SteveWrightNZ> yeah
<SteveWrightNZ> its a wee bit scruffy
<bucky> it's the wife you have to worry about.. they don't like damp moldy boats
<SteveWrightNZ> very bright inside tho - lots of gl***
<bucky> i like it
<SteveWrightNZ> indeed.. she likes it..
<SteveWrightNZ> certainly not damp or mouldy.. too bad about the beer tipped in the bilge.. ugh
<bucky> that cleans up easy
<SteveWrightNZ> yup
<SteveWrightNZ> the little outboard is 4stroke too
<SteveWrightNZ> very quiet and smooth
<J4k3> bah, its all about diesel.
<SteveWrightNZ> lol
<SteveWrightNZ> diesel boats ****
<SteveWrightNZ> damn noisy antisocial things
<J4k3> bah
<J4k3> get a lister.
<J4k3> pop-pop-pop...
<EO_> yay!
<SteveWrightNZ> yeah, 4 knots flat out
<J4k3> yeah, awesome aye?
<EO_> k what I need, is a small omni-dir HPOL mag-mount antenna
<SteveWrightNZ> EO_: no such thing
<J4k3> EO_: none available... your best bet would be a home-made j-pole
<EO_> damn :/
<J4k3> err
<SteveWrightNZ> or slim-jim
<J4k3> not a jpole
<J4k3> slimjim
<J4k3> yeah
<SteveWrightNZ> j-pole just as good nearly
<bucky> triple yanmar http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/boats/cruiser/48ec_over.asp
<J4k3> yeah, but slimjims are prolly easier
<SteveWrightNZ> yep
<J4k3> actually eo, does it have to be truely omni?
<SteveWrightNZ> tiny too
<J4k3> would 270 degrees work?
<EO_> J4k3 : maybe...
<J4k3> these toshiba routers I bought came with these C-shaped antennas
<bucky> that's my ***** barge
<SteveWrightNZ> bucky: indeed
<J4k3> they appear to work somewhat like a slotted waveguide, and from 3 directions
<J4k3> and they're flat out AMAZING performance for their size.
<J4k3> lemmie find the pic
<EO_> J4k3 : I think colin and I wanna go with hpol for general distribution...but the problem is getting mobile users something to comm with
<SteveWrightNZ> EO_: how do you mean "mobile" ?
<EO_> SteveWrightNZ : car/truck
<J4k3> EO_: I'd seriously consider MIMO for mobile use.
<SteveWrightNZ> ur stuck with vertical, really
<J4k3> nah, slimjim would work
<J4k3> you'd just have to build it or have it built.
<SteveWrightNZ> slimjim is vertical tho
<J4k3> ah, I thought slimjims were actually hpol... dh
<J4k3> er doh
<SteveWrightNZ> nup
<EO_> J4k3 : what would do MIMO? other than those crazy 3-antenna routers
<SteveWrightNZ> yeah, them
<EO_> dropping down to VPOL would pick up all the damn noise :/
<J4k3> EO_: yep. They'll deal with the multipath better when mobile.
<SteveWrightNZ> hpol antennas are directional, by definition
<EO_> SteveWrightNZ : nah
<SteveWrightNZ> there is only one exection that I know of,
<SteveWrightNZ> and that is the slotted waveguide
<EO_> and that's what we're using right now
<EO_> but we wanna move to 3-sector
<EO_> but keep hpol :/
<EO_> cuz the top speed is oh so nice
<SteveWrightNZ> the thing is, the fundamental radiating element in radio is the dipole, and if you lay it on its side, you get a null in ur pattern, like it or not..
<SteveWrightNZ> so unless, you use waveguides as mobile client antennas (infeasible), ur skrewed
<J4k3> EO_: also, if the signal is chewed up with multipath the actual polarity gets less important.
<SteveWrightNZ> this is true
<EO_> yea :/
<EO_> but the majority of interference is still vpol
<J4k3> especially if you design your 3 antennas to sit at diagonals
<EO_> we tested this and verified it
<J4k3> yeah
<SteveWrightNZ> so you may be able to just transmit hpol, and set ur clients on vpol, and wear the -20dB and still be better off
<EO_> but then those clients who wish to have high speed access and go out and buy dedicated hpol dishes won't get any benefit :/
<SteveWrightNZ> high speed ?
<SteveWrightNZ> full G speed ?
<SteveWrightNZ> ur WLAN should step down to b speed if it has even *one* b client.. not sure on that..
<EO_> yeah, full G speed
<J4k3> nah
<EO_> and why should my WLAN step down to b with just 1 client? that's daft.
<J4k3> but when that users packets are going over the network
<J4k3> those packets still move at 11mbit (or less)
<J4k3> so they still eat up that much actual radio time
<EO_> yeah
<EO_> but the fact that he's merely connected shouldn't slow down the whole network to b
<J4k3> so if you have a client capable of 20, and a client cable for 5 (mbit actual effective), and the 5mbit client pulls 2.5mbit of data, at best the other client will be able to move 10mbit
<EO_> the headers will still get sent @ 1Mbit or whatever, but the payloads will go out over OFDM and what not
<SteveWrightNZ> I dont know.. thats just what I had heard..
<J4k3> EO_: set the 11b basic rate up.
<EO_> SteveWrightNZ : what you heard is wrong.
<J4k3> SteveWrightNZ: it does kick on 'protection' mode which loses about 10% efficiency on 11g data.
<SteveWrightNZ> ahh
<EO_> J4k3 : ah so the basic rate is the header rate?
<J4k3> SteveWrightNZ: in a pure-g environment that doesn't normally occur... but, it WILL turn on protection even if there are 11b clients/ap's in the area (unless you've got a firm grip on the balls of your wifi drivers)
<J4k3> EO_: the basic rate is the beacon/announcement rate.
<SteveWrightNZ> ahh
<J4k3> EO_: so yeah, kinda. but if people fall below the basic rate they'll 'fall apart' from the network.
<EO_> I still like the idea of 1Mbit basic rate.
<J4k3> EO_: so you'll probably want to fully disable lower speed support to keep them from attempting to blast through
<EO_> accessibility is more important than speed
<J4k3> ah, my situation is more qos related
<J4k3> although I'm hoping some things change with this new gear/software
<EO_> new stuff? what new stuff?
<J4k3> ah, rb500's and mikrotik
<J4k3> I'm going to do some comparison between my stuff and their stuff... if their stuff is better its affordable enough to seriously consider.
<J4k3> yeah its $70 more than what I'm paying now, but is it worth it in the long run? thats what I'ma have to consider.
<brick> i came back for more. can anyone suggest which layers might be going wrong for me? my intersil card works great with orinoco/hermes, but i understand that to get WPA i need to use hostap. hostap modules successfully set the Vcc but do not create any interface that ifconfig or iwconfig can see.
<brick> my prism firmware is 1.4.2, perhaps not new enough for some features - but apparently prism2_srec flashing requires an addressable device ...
<brick> been working on this for hours and my wrists hurt. going idle for a lil while
<DrBop> To brick with Hostap problem - I spent many hours on this too. Everything seemed to work with iwconfig, but I needed to run 'dhclient' first to set up DHCP.
<SteveWrightNZ> prolly hotplug not configured
<brick> thanks DrBop. i think dhclient needs an interface specified
<brick> SteveWrightNZ: ok, how could i confirm that?
<brick> nothing in my kernel log when i run it
<SteveWrightNZ> run which ?
<brick> hotplug; i dunno how it works.
<SteveWrightNZ> when you run what ?
<brick> there are sooo many layers in this system, it is stunning
<SteveWrightNZ> indeed
<SteveWrightNZ> what distro ?
<brick> debian here
<brick> i compiled hostap from source
<SteveWrightNZ> do you have hotplug installed ?
<brick> sure, that's what i ran once above
<SteveWrightNZ> sigh
<brick> i'm looking at what it is..
<SteveWrightNZ> have a look through ur hotplug confs
<brick> i dunno man, like i said, when i use the hermes and orinoco modules it comes right up as eth1
<DrBop> I am on debian sarge also. Does the hostap interface respond appropriately to iwconfig commands ?
<brick> perhaps i compiled hotplug with the wrong options
<DrDT> J4k3: ping
<brick> Draelen: i don't have the interface, so i can't use those tools - right?
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